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The New, The Improved & The Shiny at SenchaCon 2013

June 10, 2013 | Michael Mullany

SenchaCon Roadmap sneak peakAs we speak, the entire Sencha team is battened down for the closing weeks of preparation for SenchaCon 2013, July 16–19 in Orlando, Florida. We’ve published most of our sessions, announced most of our speakers and shown you the insane after-hours parties we’ve got in store. Now we’re going to give you a little sneak peek at what we’ll be talking about in those secret sessions on the schedule. It’s time to lift the curtain — just a little bit — on the new features and products we’ll be announcing.

Frameworks

We’ve delivered on our Ext JS 4 commitments, including RTL, and grid performance. Now we’re ready to talk about what’s next. One of the big themes for Sencha is more convergence between Touch and Ext JS, and at SenchaCon you’ll be first to see the future of Ext JS live. Don Griffin and crew be showing off major new features that take the Ext JS grid to a new level of design flexibility and efficiency.

And one more thing for Ext JS.

Touch has a huge number of surprises lined up. Jacky Nguyen & crew will be showing off a couple of “never-seen-before” features for Touch that take speed of development to a whole new level. And you know that brilliant designer who could bring great things to your Touch projects, if only they could somehow get their heads around the JavaScript? That won’t be a problem. No matter how big your project.

Also, when 2017 calls, and tells you that Web Components are finally in IE, you’ll be hanging up. You’ll already be working with something way more powerful. (Now what could *that* mean?)

Architect

But we’re not done yet, because Aaron Conran and the Architect team have been rocking and rolling getting ready to push out new bits that only SenchaCon attendees will get their hands on. These bits are freshly brewed from the finest organic monads and carefully compiled to avoid bruising. Could they involve powerful new theming capabilities? Let’s ask the Magic Eight Ball.

We *can* tell you that we’re going to be giving a huge bear-hug to user components. And showing off awesome new features to radically improve app building.

And one more thing?

If all of that isn’t enough... We’ll also be introducing a brand new 1.0 product at SenchaCon. We think it’s the future of Enterprise apps. And at SenchaCon, you’ll be the very first in the world to get your hands on it. You might want to wear these, it’ll be pretty hot.

There are 39 responses. Add yours.

Pseudolus

2 years ago

“We’ve delivered on our Ext JS 4 commitments, including RTL, and grid performance.”

What about the commitment to make v4 at least as fast as v3 on IE?  General performance, such as multiple tabbed pages and many components has not been addressed as far as I can tell.  There are many forum threads documenting these deficiencies but nothing from Sencha indicating they’ve been resolved.  I’d love to be simply uninformed. Please enlighten us.

Suloduesp

2 years ago

And may I add that you may have delivered on your commitments, but about three years later than you told us and destroyed the community doing so…

MannyB

2 years ago

ExtJS and touch integration is a step in the right direction. Please also more out of the box themes. Neptune was a good idea. The old extjs default theme is getting pretty boring these days.

Sasha Azad

2 years ago

Great going guys. Wish I could attend. Oh well maybe next year smile

Oh also, love the Jobian “one more thing”. Looking forward to finding out what it is.

Xxs

2 years ago

Can you teel if Extjs5 will be backwards compatible with Extjs4 or will we have to relearn it and convert our projects as we had with Extjs4?

Johan van de Merwe

2 years ago

I had lately so much emails promoting the Senchacon that I slowly start to have the feeling that Sencha has forgotten that there are still a few that would like to see more articles on their website regarding Ext JS developments and progress. I came to this article, because of an email with the tempting title “Sneak preview at the Sencha roadmap”. But it is just another add that I should go come to Orlando. I really would love that if my business gave me that opportunity. I wish I that Sencha took its developers that are not attending at Senchacon a little bit more serious. I really love Ext JS, I program it everyday, but I think that progress is (with 2,000.000 developers in mind) a bit slow. I would like to see a real sneak preview and a well defined roadmap for Ext JS outside of Senchacon. With the release of Ext JS 4, the theming is still not what it should be (too much handwork) and there were also, except for the Neptune style, not much extras to enjoy. The looks of Ext JS start to become a bit outdated. It’s a great framework, but I have hard time to sell it as an innovative product to the customer. It still looks the same as it did 3 years ago.

And if look at the new Apple IOS 7 innovative layout, I assume that quite some Sencha resources will be put on the refurbish of the Sencha Touch styles. I think that Sencha Touch is the product that has the main focus of Sencha. Please don’t let Ext JS become the companies dinosaur.

And for Senchacon, I hope i will produce some nice video deliveries that can be enjoyed afterwards for the ones that were not going to Disneyland.

Kay

2 years ago

Second that Johan!

If I remove all the Senchacon ads I got the last few months, then there is not much left.

Before this I really liked the Sencha newsletter.

JSVet

2 years ago

I agree with Johan. I would like to not receive the ads for senchacon. I know about it, but like most Sencha developers, I can’t just go because the ads are convincing. I followed this ad, just as Johan did, because I got your latest email advertising senchacon, and it implied that I would see some new information about what might be in future releases. It said you “spill some of the beans” in this blog posting. I have been coding and recommending ExtJs for years, and am losing the battle because of performance issues. Within my organization, I see a turn toward the jquery piecemeal solution with slickgrid (two-axis virtualization, performance on ie), dynatree (no more memory probs on ie), highcharts (labeling options), etc. If you have something planned to compete, I need to be reading about that instead of all the blogs about senchacon.

Aaron Prose

2 years ago

I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one who took issue with “We’ve delivered on our Ext JS 4 commitments, including RTL, and grid performance.” We continue to see performance issues in IE and a slew of bugs in the 4.2 framework across the board. At this point, a large part of our codebase is hacks and fixes to work around problems in the framework. Only this past week one of our testers found a bug that effectively crashes the grid, both in our application and the ExtJS demo.

What makes these issues even more frustrating is the lack of support coming from Sencha. Instead of progress/status updates, we get invitations to “party like a rockstar” at SenchaCon. Wouldn’t users be better served if some of the effort being poured into promoting the convention went into actual development?

As of now, we are no longer pursuing any new projects using ExtJS. While I love the framework, the support and the attitude currently coming Sencha is prohibitive. Quite honestly, development hours at this point are better spent learning another framework than trying to build with a product that has such ambivalent support.

KP

2 years ago

Aaron, at least you’re on ExtJS 4.  We stayed with 3 because of all of the issues you’ve mentioned.  Despite paying for support ext3 users are at the very end of the line for getting any help.  Support for IE10 for instance, was way behind everyone else.  Thank god for poor Windows 8 adoption.

Honestly I hate feeling held hostage by a UI framework that has no migration path version to version.  Maybe it’s a blessing in disguise, if I have to rip and replace just to get up to a supported version, than there wouldn’t be much difference in rip and replace to another framework.

I wish we had budget to send our developers to what is shamelessly billed as a party event, but I have no credibility when upper management looks at this event.

The completely misleading teasers in the email about seeing the roadmap and getting information that could very much help us in planning our technical roadmap are enraging, where the spam about joining senchacon were just annoying.

Sencha: you make toolkits, not software, you can’t treat us like customers, we’re developers.  Open up your roadmap and plans so we can plan our own development.  Make available the same materials you announce at sencacon to us second class citizens that can’t attend at the same time you do to your “rockstars”.

Johan van de Merwe

2 years ago

@KP, so eloquently and expressing my similar thoughts. It seems that Sencha has heavily invested in marketeers that know their thing on internet marketing, but have no clue about their audience.

KP, I was also highly annoyed about the “rockstar” ad.

Pseudolus

2 years ago

@Johan, perhaps it’s not that they don’t know their audience, but rather that their audience are *new* developers willing to read the glitz and invest in Sencha Complete and *not* those who already invested in the framework and made enormous development efforts trying to deploy a large app.  Sencha broke performance by making admitted mistakes in the v4 architecture and to date have not resolved this.  There have been *many* attempts to get support for this problem over the past years to little avail.  It seems that only grid performance is ever even mentioned.  If your app uses tabbed pages and has many components on a page, then good luck….

Johan van de Merwe

2 years ago

@Pseudolus, So where will it all lead us then?

I agree with KP about the fact that Sencha is focussing a lot on (new) customers, and less on developers that have spent in some cases quite some years in it.

I have been a premium Sencha developer now for 4 years, but also I must admit that the support on Ext JS is quite poor.

But who knows, maybe the rockstars in Disneyland in the end will surprise us and ease our emotions on this subject.

Matt

2 years ago

I have to agree with everyone’s criticisms here. The statement “We’ve delivered on our Ext JS 4 commitment” not only gets under my skin, but it scares me as well. I think Sencha is prematurely giving themselves a ‘job well done’ pat on the back. I have been an Ext JS developer for about 5 years now and have come to appreciate the power of the framework as well as the ease of being able to quickly create large web apps. That being said I have become increasingly disappointed with the pacing of critical bug fixes and the incompatibilities between minor version updates. I love the concepts behind Ext JS 4, but I simply cannot bring myself to recommend the framework to anyone due to the issues. I can’t help but feel that the framework has been going downhill ever since it has been under the Sencha moniker.

Sencha, please begin taking your community seriously. I suggest pulling a few people from the rockstar party planning department, and task them in closing the hundreds of bugs that have been reported in the forums which have gotten no further attention than a response stating “Thanks for the report”

Aaron Prose

2 years ago

@KP I have a few legacy applications using ExtJS 3, so I definitely know where you’re coming from regarding ongoing support.

I have to say though that at least v3 was a polished product (albeit one needing the occaional ongoing maintenance).  V4 to me has seemed to be problematic from the start; releasing late, then shipping with a host of bugs.  Fixes have been slow and infrequent and have the unfortunate tendency to cause as many new bugs as they fix existing ones.

But let’s not worry about that, it’s not important!  Let’s all go to SenchaCon and party like rockstars!  Why bother with trivial things like supporting our existing users and delivering a high-quality toolset?

Ugh.  This is why I’m now spending time researching potential replacement frameworks rather than actual product development.

Michael Mullany

2 years ago

Thanks for all your comments, and I’d like to let you know a few things. The Ext JS team is the largest engineering team at Sencha and they are working incredibly hard on enhancements and bug fixes to Ext JS 4 as well as next generation stuff. By no means are giving ourselves a pat on the back. We’ve spent the last two years since the release of Ext JS 4.0.0 getting the performance and features of the product to a level that we feel meet our initial goals for the release although I know that some of you feel that your use cases are still too slowy no means are giving ourselves a pat on the back.

We have made frequent updates to Ext JS over the last 2 years since the 4.0 release. Below is an abbreviated release history of Ext JS 4. And we’re still not done with the 4.x line. The progress we’ve done in the last year in test coverage, automation and release process has been substantial, and I hope you’re seeing the quality improvement in the recent releases. We have been extremely active fixing and closing 4.x bugs - as I hope you can see from the 4.2.1 release notes among others.

4.0         4/11/11
4.0.1 5/19/11
4.0.2 6/9/11
...
4.0.7 10/11/11
4.1 4/24/12
4.1.1 7/4/12
4.1.2 9/18/12
4.1.3 10/25/12
4.2 3/12/13
4.2.1 5/28/13

If the marketing for SenchaCon has been excessive then I apologize. We’re pretty excited by the content and everyone at Sencha is working hard to ensure a great experience is had by all there. As far as the Rockstar promotion goes, I hope you got the core point - which was that we are giving the best rooms in the hotel to our community members. If your manager is not convinced by the session content that you should go to SenchaCon, then give me his or her email and I’ll call him or her myself. 

Just like SenchaCon 2010, and SenchaCon 2011, we will be writing blog posts and posting session slides during and after SenchaCon about what we announce there. What we can’t duplicate is the experience of connecting in person with the engineers that write the frameworks and tools that you rely on for your daily work.)

Thanks for all your comments and input, however harsh. The Ext JS community gets bigger and stronger every day, but we can always do better with candid feedback like this.

Pseudolus

2 years ago

@Mullany,  Thanks for the info.  You wrote:

“We’ve spent the last two years since the release of Ext JS 4.0.0 getting the performance and features of the product to a level that we feel meet our initial goals for the release”

The often stated performance requirement is to be at least as fast as v3.4.  Do you think this has been met?

JS

2 years ago

The future of EXT JS and the future of enterprise development? Perhaps this is the same future being embraced by other all the other modern JavaScript frameworks?

I’ll quote from the blog post announcing jQuery 2.0: “In return it is smaller, faster, and can be used in JavaScript environments where the code needed for old-IE compatibility often causes problems of its own.”

Relegating code designed for old browsers to a separate branch seems like an even more ideal strategy for EXT JS, which goes so far as to destroy rendering performance and CSS freedom in Chrome 27 in the name of layout parity in IE6. JavaScript layouts are the future of nothing.

To be fair, with the type of feedback you’ve received so far, it’s clear why Sencha hasn’t made such a move. But when 2017 calls, are you still going to be on the line with IE6?

Johan van de Merwe

2 years ago

@Mullany, Thanks for your extensive reply. I do hope that you at Sencha also record the sessions on the Senchacon on video and that those will come available to developers that didn’t attend for further learning. I have missed them from the Senchacon 2012, but they were good to watch from Senchacon 2011.

So please don’t be modest there. There are more reasons than only a cranky manager that one might not be able to attend at Senchacon.2013. (http://vimeo.com/album/1829605)

Johan van de Merwe

2 years ago

@JS, I really hope that you will have abonded IE6 by 2017. Why would you like to have Sencha resources spent on browsers that are not even supported anymore by their manufacturers? Even jQuery 2.0 will drop support on IE6. Except for China (24%) almost every one has abandoned this product.

What motivation is there to still support IE6 (made in 2001!)?

Michael Mullany

2 years ago

@psuedolus (I do wish you’d use a forum name - so this feels like a conversation) & @Johan The 4.2 Grid initial render with buffered rendering is now as fast or faster than 3.4. Our nested app test is now as fast or faster on everything except IE6-8. IE8 is about 15% slower than 3.4. IE6 and 7 initial render is 2x slower vs. 3.4. From looking at browser share, we don’t think spending a lot of additional time optimizing for IE6 and 7 is a good return on investment. You may remember that we already don’t support IE6 for Neptune theming because it lacks transparent png support - and we can’t automate theme creation without it.

Pseudolus

2 years ago

@Mullany, what is the “nested app test”?  Where can we see the test code so that we can compare it to our apps?  BTW, I believe that your comments are the first time I’ve seen any quantified comparisons from Sencha regarding performance between v3 and v4.  Here are a couple of the tests provided by users in the forums showing poor performance.  How do these tests compare to v3.4.1 with the latest v4?

http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?136886-Very-slow-Tab-Panel-performance-vs-3.4

In this thread several users state the v4.2 is still much slower than v3. - especially tab rendering and switching:
http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?131618-4.x-Serious-performance-issues-under-IE-8

Pseudolus

2 years ago

FWIW…forgot to mention that I, pseudolus, am a Sencha user but just haven’t posted much in the forums so the name isn’t familiar

Tim 23secs

2 years ago

To be fair, Sencha and her products are at this point in time still ahead in my opinion. You can only construct a Touch/ExtJs equivalent by combining several different frameworks, say for example an ExtJs… perhaps backbone (mvc) with jquery (base, ui & sizzle) throw raphael and/or D3js in the mix, a touch of less and you might get there as well. Offering all of this in one product isn’t an easy thing to maintain as well as probably dealing with some growing pains.

As for IE, even Microsoft found the light and from IE10 onwards, IE will (/should) stay up to date.
I’m very glad to see the intention to align touch & extjs, this has been my prediction since the initial release of touch. And ofcourse nowadays that bit more important due to hybrid devices. Web IS (and was) the future… web integration in OS (firefox OS, chromium project,...) and in all kinds of devices (tv, fridge, ...)

If I would be asked to give a few tips to Sencha, they would be:
- Prepare guidelines and documentation before releasing a new major/minor version
- When making architectural changes (Sass implementation for example) prepare (semi-)automated upgrading and communicate them. I have never succeeded in a worry free update using CMD, though I’ve noticed in the recent changes (application.js vs. app.js for example) that the correct steps to accommodate this better are on their way.
- As a well known scientist said: “Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius—and a lot of courage—to move in the opposite direction.” aka keep it simple wink
In short: communication in any angle is an important issue. This would regain a lot of trust of the developers community, no more reverse engineering to figure out what changed, or how it changed and what needs to be done to get it upgraded and working in full.

To my regret I won’t be attending the SenchaCon either this year, work needs to be done grin

Last, but certainly not least, thanks to all Sencha employees for their hard work, keep it up, keep it simple, be creative and innotvative.

Cheers !

Rich02818

2 years ago

I just updated the tab test in the forum below to 4.2.1.744-beta and it still fails to match the performance of 3.4.1.1

http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?136886-Very-slow-Tab-Panel-performance-vs-3.4&p=973549#post973549

Aaron Prose

2 years ago

@Michael First, thank you for commenting on this thread.  It’s good to have feedback from the Sencha side in this. 

A few reactions to your comments:

You say you’re by no means giving yourselves a pat on the back.  However, your blog post says you’ve “delivered on our Ext JS 4 commitments” and are “ready to talk about what’s next” even while your support forums have a laundry list of bugs and users in this thread are decrying continued performance issues when compared to v3.4.  You write that “some of you feel your use cases are still too slowy [sic];” I would argue that with your stated focus on grid performance, you’re focusing on the performance of *your* use cases and not on the performance of the framework as whole.

You also tout your release history as evidence of the progress you’ve made with the 4.x line.  What you gloss over though is that almost every release introduced as many if not more issues than it corrected.  Release 4.0.7 in fact completely broke compatibility with the previous 4.x iterations, requiring massive headaches for early adopters…and this was six months after 4.0 was released!  This is an excellent recipe for frustrated developers.

As far as the SenchaCon advertising backlash is concerned, I feel like you’ve tapped a significant vein of frustration from developers who are wanting product news and feedback about their concerns and instead are receiving invitations to what seems to be a “fun” convention (even this blog post, linked from an email about Sencha roadmap, mentions “insane after-hours parties”).

In sum, I can’t help but feel—despite your assurances to the contrary—that Sencha is focussing on the wrong things.  Ext JS 4 continues to have serious issues, but instead of coming forward with information about how and when we can expect fixes, we get invitations to parties.

Again, thank you for responding to this thread.  Unfortunately, your answers do little to assure me that my previous reaction was unfounded.

Jimmifett

2 years ago

I’ve been pushing ExtJS hard in my university’s IT programming department with fantastic results and glowing feedback from quickly completed and highly polished projects compared to other things like JSF and jQuery, esp when combined with current version of my Ext Direct stack (which I need to get around to updating the publicly available version…)

However, I’m having a hell of a time convincing the higher ups that not only should I go, but others that would be learning Touch in addition to ExtJS should be sent due to the whole Party Like a Rock Star campaign as the first thing they see when I give them the URL. Even though that is gone from the front page now, it’s already done the damage.

Also doesn’t help that the third item in the About menu is SenchaCon Party. This should be the last thing on that menu, if even on it to begin with.

This has been a badly promoted conference in my opinion, and despite my enthusiasm to go and bring others to help them learn, I may not have that opportunity.

-Jim

Ira Klotzko

2 years ago

ExtJS 4 had to be, in my opinion, was a poorly coordinated release and paradigm shift. Even Microsoft has done a better job at being backwards compatible.

What has to happen is an entire community, open-source base, should be focused on branching at ext js 3.x and supporting and developing features for her.

Ext JS 4 has not delivered on anything but being slower, hard to switch to, and being poorly managed. Sorry Sencha, but migrating large enterprise apps from 3.x to 4.x will not be an option for many of us here.

Johan van de Merwe

2 years ago

@Ira Klotzko, I agree with you on the migration of Ext 3 to 4, but I completely disagree that Ext 4 didn’t bring anything. I have 3 complete systems running with customers of mine and another 3 large ones at another customer. But I must say that I have no problem with neither of them. I also disagree with the remark in another comment that Ext 4 would be buggy. What is harder for me is to support Ext 3 and 4. And I know for sure that my Ext 3 customers are not interested in paying a lot for a migration to 4.

Regarding backwards compatibility I never expected that Ext 4 would be such with 3. But what bothers me a lot is that Sencha decides in smaller updates on 4 decides to suddenly leave things out, like CSS styles. And that makes even an update to a newer release one of unwanted surprises.

I am still a huge fan of Sencha Ext JS and I have not met one comparible in the market. And I state this without owning any shares in Sencha and have to pay every year for my support.

Johan van de Merwe

2 years ago

@Michael Mullany, thank you, the last newsletter was one that I appreciated again.

Alan Smith

2 years ago

I agree with Ira Klotzko on the migration to Ext 4.  I have been writing large enterprise applications with ExtJS since the early days of 2.x. (Before the license debacle several years ago)  After attempting to use the compatibility layer that was released with Ext 4 and having no success, I decided to leave our applications at Ext 3.  I would like to upgrade to Ext 4, but in my opinion, it’s not worth the effort to rewrite an entire application.

Ira Klotzko

2 years ago

Yes, Ext 4 did bring some new stuff to the table. I was trying to say—but didn’t—that by changing the whole paradigm of how JS code HAS to be written, they didn’t bring that much to the table. And, it also removed things from the table, notably pivot. It is hard to trust a company which removes functionality without warning.

There is a comparable to ExtJS in the market, however, not in all one place. The problem is that we’ve put all our eggs in one basket, the 3.x version and now we’re screwed—well my clients are at least. In retrospect I have learned that perhaps it would have been better to:

- Adopt an industry standard for cross-browser javascript and DOM manipulation, and that is clearly jQuery and is not going anywheres.
- Adopt an industry standard for any MVC, OOJS, and other frameworks, etc…
- Use a variety of widely-adopted widgets for more complex display of data: hyper-functional tables, trees, etc…
- Use industry standard for eye-candy widgets: lightboxes, drop downs, drag-n-drop, etc…
- Organically develop everything else

However, ExtJS tried and succeeded being ALL these things but at a HUGE cost, and I would argue less of a gain than they could have realized. It’s like the prize cow that made 10 award winning buckets of milk and knocked 9 of them over.

Johan van de Merwe

2 years ago

@Ira Klotzko, I think the MVC in Ext JS works fine. I don’t prefer to see eye-candy widgets in Ext JS for I am building applications with it, not a website. And you are right when you say that the Ext JS offers it all in one place. When I am using a lightbox in Ext JS, I do this with Fancybox and that suits me just fine. What I need is a stable frontend framework that supports my applications and for this I am still a great fan of Sencha Ext JS (especially version 4). As an old die-hard developer who started long time ago on an IBM mainframe, I like to keep the demand as close to what the framework offers and in this I am not disappointed at all with what Ext JS offers.

Ira Klotzko

2 years ago

@Johan, I think our needs are different and this makes for an interesting conversation. I found the 2 best parts of ExtJS to be the OOP JS paradigm, and yes, I like ver. 4 better, but not the fact you HAVE to use ver. 4’s paradigm. The other thing I like best about ExtJS is the data, ajax, table/tree/control binding. For these 2 items I believe a combination of jquery, google closures, and/or prototype to handle much of this. The binding can be handled either homegrown like or through 3rd party controls. However, the eye candy is also an important thing for me, as customers want their data to be displayed very nicely.

But I would argue that if you take out the eye candy and data integration then Ext JS seems like overkill. Why not something simpler, smaller, prototype, or others of that ilk. I think there are plenty of very very stable frameworks that are much more targeted towards mainly this need and do a better job at keeping things tight and stable. Plus they are free, better supported, and more widely adopted. Maybe our definitions of framework are out of sync, entirely possible.

Interestingly, I build apps too, mostly intranet type stuff (however, not exclusively), and some kind of uniform way of handling data and displaying data is probably one of the demands that makes an application’s needs much different than a traditional website.

Anyway, it’s clear ExtJS is stable in any given release (within reason) but I wouldn’t call it stable across releases. That is perhaps my main gripe. It’s a moving target.

Pseudolus

1 year ago

@Mullany,  Thus far it seems that the Sencha position is the following:

1. Sencha has delivered on their ExtJS 4 commitments.

2. Those with continued (and well documented) performance problems just “feel that your use cases are stil too slow.”

3. Sencha has worked really hard on v4 as shown by all the releases.

4. Sencha’s internal “nested app test” shows only a 15% performance lag between v4 and v3.4 on IE8

Is 1 thru 4 above an accurate account of Sencha’s position? 

What is the “nested app test”?  We need to see and run it.

Given the above Sencha statements, what is Sencha’s position about making v4 at least as fast as v3.4?  Do you consider it done and those with unfortunate “use cases” just need to rewrite their apps?

 

Dawesi

1 year ago

@Pseudolus, I don’t remember Sencha ever promising to deliver equal performance, instead delivered the needed flexability, which for someone like me who’s been using it since 0.2 of Yui-Ext is just mind-blowing.

The nested app test is in the examples.

Why does it NEED to be as fast? It doesn’t. You need to learn perception tricks. go lookup the Apple manual on loading apps. Most apps take 3-8 seconds to load, but no-one even notices? Why. Go find that out, actual speed matters less than perceived speed in _most_ cases. (except realtime services)

Also as a community member you also can contribute to the community. I’ve been running http://senchaworld.com/ for three years now (about to get a major relaunch on day 1 of SenchaCon), it’s a community site. It’s not a Sencha site, but something I’ve given back to the community to help. As of August it’s about to do even more.

Stay tuned.

Pseudolus

1 year ago

“@Pseudolus, I don’t remember Sencha ever promising to deliver equal performance,”

I can only quote John McEnroe “You cannot be serious!”

Pseudolus

1 year ago

@Dawesi, perhaps your usage of ExtJS doesn’t need to be fast, but when you produce an application (not website) for use in daily data entry speed is essential.  Perhaps you failed to read what Mike Mullany wrote in Nov 2011. 

“Our goal is to get the 4.x line to be faster than 3.4 at the very least for the common app cases. From looking at what people are posting on this thread and our internal testing, it looks like the consensus is that the current 4.1 preview is roughly 2x faster than 4.0 but also still about 2x slower than 3.4. We are working as aggressively as possible and will continue to release performance improvements in 4.1.x and 4.2 releases until we achieve our performance goals. Hence our recommendation. As an aside, we’ve integrated continuous performance benchmarking in our testing process as a result of our 4.0 performance experience.

Our initial comments that 4.x would be faster than 3.x was based on early benchmarks of our refactored layout and rendering pipeline - which we showed at SenchaCON 2010. Subsequent to SenchaCON 201, we integrated the new class system, added fairly involved theming code and also did a grid rewrite to support the new 4.x features. The combination of these, particularly for more complex layouts, reduced performance substantially from our early benchmarks, as all of our, and your, test benchmarks have shown.”
http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?153008-4.x-Framework-performance-–-Request-for-an-Official-Statement/page11

@MMullaney, this performance commitment has yet to be met.  Is it going to be?  Or has it been quietly dropped?

Ira Klotzko

1 year ago

Loading? That’s not the only performance metric… Performance means: rendering, loading, responsiveness, data retrieval… So many things… And, if you have to change the paradigm of your 3.x program to make it perform better in 4.x then you are programming twice. But that still doesn’t fix the performance issues.

Sencha is for Applications, not Websites. Those that use it for your average website, let’s just say this is not the norm and it could be argued as not being a “good practice”... It’s overkill for simple stuff.

Perhaps to Sencha, it’s about perceived quality rather than actual quality. But, as long as there are people that settle for less, Sencha will continue to stick around.

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