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Edmund
8 Nov 2011, 1:30 PM
We are now tracking about 100 critical bugs. As soon as we have cleared these bugs and get QA sign off, we will release a 4.1 beta.

The top priority of the team is to release the build with quality as soon as possible.

scottmartin
8 Nov 2011, 1:55 PM
Thank you for providing us with an update.

Regards,
Scott.

tvanzoelen
9 Nov 2011, 12:13 AM
Thanks for the update. Is this bug among them: http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?137955-Event-sequence-grid-view-selectionmodel-not-correct ?

Else there are 101 critical bugs.

LesJ
9 Nov 2011, 1:32 PM
Thanks for the update. Is this bug among them: http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?137955-Event-sequence-grid-view-selectionmodel-not-correct ?

Else there are 101 critical bugs.

I also have a critical bug :(( ... and I'm not able to upgrade to 4.1pre or even 4.0.7.

http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?152104-4.0.7-4.0.6-VML-broken-text-rotation

zombeerose
10 Nov 2011, 11:25 AM
@Edmund - any chance of getting a peak at the list of tracking numbers?



We are now tracking about 100 critical bugs. As soon as we have cleared these bugs and get QA sign off, we will release a 4.1 beta.

The top priority of the team is to release the build with quality as soon as possible.

Edmund
15 Nov 2011, 12:17 PM
Updates:

Today we have 107 active bugs. This past week our incoming bug rate is very close to our bug fix rate, and we are expecting the incoming bug rate to decline.

Also, I have attached a list of bugs that we are addressing for Beta. This is a working document so it changes. We'll publish a final bug list once the beta build becomes stable.

scottmartin
15 Nov 2011, 1:08 PM
Is there a cut-off as when the next release may be posted? I am sure you want to include all of the fixes you can before the next release, but at some point a release of existing fixes would be helpful while you continue working on pending/new bugs.

It would also be helpful if you included the same txt file as above in each release denoting what has been fixed so we can know what was addressed instead of having to guess.

Regards,
Scott.

burnnat
15 Nov 2011, 1:47 PM
It would also be helpful if you included the same txt file as above in each release denoting what has been fixed so we can know what was addressed instead of having to guess.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, I think Sencha already does this... for example, ext-4.0.7/release-notes.html shows a list of fixed bugs and their ticket numbers.

scottmartin
15 Nov 2011, 2:35 PM
uh, nevermind "roseanne roseannadanna"

Regards,
Scott.

skirtle
16 Nov 2011, 12:52 AM
I recognize some of the items on that list as long-term minor bugs. While we'd all like to see them fixed I find it hard to believe that fixing all of them is required to do a release of 4.1, especially given just how desperately some people need 4.1.

Is it not possible to get a second preview release?

kanntronics
16 Nov 2011, 3:58 AM
I recognize some of the items on that list as long-term minor bugs. While we'd all like to see them fixed I find it hard to believe that fixing all of them is required to do a release of 4.1, especially given just how desperately some people need 4.1.

Is it not possible to get a second preview release?

+1

At least get the SVN for Ext 4 branch working just like before. As a support subscriber, I want a frequent update for bug fixes. Please do something or just let us access via Git if the git-svn mirroring is hard to deal with.

scottmartin
16 Nov 2011, 5:25 AM
At least get the SVN for Ext 4 branch working just like before. As a support subscriber, I want a frequent update for bug fixes. Please do something or just let us access via Git if the git-svn mirroring is hard to deal with.

Agreed. This topic has been brought up many times and ignored. That is one of the main reasons I purchase a license ... to get SVN/GIT access.

Please provide us access for which we paid for.

Regards,
Scott.

zombeerose
16 Nov 2011, 7:03 AM
+1 for svn access

astrocybernaute
21 Nov 2011, 2:07 AM
any updates yet?!!

this is taking too long!

liuxing_sc
21 Nov 2011, 4:12 AM
i cannot use 4.0.7 as it brought us many new active bugs which we didn't have before. 4.1 is not able to use for our project as well. i wanna know where can i find the bug status? i just wanna know which bugs would be fixed in next version.

nomack84
21 Nov 2011, 7:18 AM
Four weeks since PR1, without any news about a PR2 o Beta version. To bad! :-/

skirtle
21 Nov 2011, 7:36 AM
There was this mention of a possible PR2:

http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?152122&p=674419#post674419

scottmartin
21 Nov 2011, 7:36 AM
I noticed a post the other day from Ed Spencer stating the a PR2 might be available in a few weeks.

My guess is that they are trying to get a good release out and are tired of releasing 'shut them up' releases.

Regards,
Scott.

astrocybernaute
21 Nov 2011, 8:42 AM
few weeks to get the pr2!!OMG
so when can we expect the final 4.1??

if thats true that will screw our whole project..all efforts and time spent in it so that we wouldnt be able to launch in time!
im soo frustrated

buergi
21 Nov 2011, 12:26 PM
@astrocybernaute: Welcome in my world...

lorezyra
21 Nov 2011, 3:31 PM
few weeks to get the pr2!!OMG
so when can we expect the final 4.1??

if thats true that will screw our whole project..all efforts and time spent in it so that we wouldnt be able to lunch in time!
im soo frustrated

I hate it when I can't "lunch on time!" :))


Never, ever, expect hard-line, written in stone Dates of Release from Sencha... If you base your project off of the latest release dates, your project will either fail or completely miss the deadline.

_matias_
22 Nov 2011, 4:29 AM
@lorezyra,

forgive me if I misunderstand you but you seem to imply that it is buergi's or astrocybernaute's expectations that were unreasonable. Though in hindsight you seem to be right about this, there should be, between the current mess and a perfect platform, ample space for a release that is at least deployable for IE, Chrome and FF business cases while waiting for improvements to roll in.

In my case, I have been evaluating ExtJs 4 for 8 months, having to reassess my evaluation all the time since the platform is moving all the time. Thankfully, it seems to be moving forward, even though this might not be the opinion of those mainly interested in how its performance compares with that of ExtJs2 and 3. I can be thankful that the approval of the big assignment I am preparing for, has been put off month after month just like the decision for me of whether to go with ExtJs or not.

It seems you are right about the risks of taking Sencha's release dates without, I would say, at least 6 months' worth of salt. Up to the limit of the failure of one's project, it is better to wait than to get something not quite right quickly, but Sencha should make very clear right now to every prospective client that they might not have anything ready before several months

buergi
22 Nov 2011, 8:14 AM
We waited at least 6 months, before we started to use Ext JS 4.0.7.

To call this an official release is an insult to everybody. They have still over 100 critical bugs... Hello????

ykey
22 Nov 2011, 9:11 AM
Updates:

Today we have 107 active bugs. This past week our incoming bug rate is very close to our bug fix rate, and we are expecting the incoming bug rate to decline.

Also, I have attached a list of bugs that we are addressing for Beta. This is a working document so it changes. We'll publish a final bug list once the beta build becomes stable.



I am hoping that we will get a weekly update to this to help us get an idea of their pace on 4.1

Edmund
23 Nov 2011, 10:10 AM
Our beta bug count continues to be high, about the same level as last week, at 105 bugs. Stability is still an issue. I’ve attached the bug list as a reference. Keep in mind that this is a working document and subject to change.

We heard the request for another preview, and the team is evaluating that option. We will let you know once we make that decision. Our main concern is not to get distracted from our goal of releasing a public beta.

Regarding release timeline: 4.1 GA will not be available before the end of the year. We currently do not have an estimate because our main focus is to get a stable 4.1 beta out. And we will release a beta as soon as we knocked down all the instability bugs.

tvanzoelen
23 Nov 2011, 10:16 AM
stable 4.1

Now you're talking.

zombeerose
23 Nov 2011, 10:42 AM
@Edmund

Thanks for the follow-up!

What is the probability of getting SVN access to the 4.1 branch?

Access to Development SVN (http://www.sencha.com/support/)

Edmund
23 Nov 2011, 11:21 AM
@zombeerose
There is currently a bug blocking SVN build. It's one of the 105 unresolved bugs that we are tracking for the beta:
EXTJSIV-4327 building from SVN fails

scottmartin
24 Nov 2011, 9:15 AM
There is currently a bug blocking SVN build. It's one of the 105 unresolved bugs that we are tracking for the beta:
EXTJSIV-4327 building from SVN fails

I believe the question at hand is when will we get access to the SVN/GIT, not what version currently exists. Access has been non-existent for ExtJS4

Regards,
Scott.

rich02818
24 Nov 2011, 1:58 PM
@zombeerose
There is currently a bug blocking SVN build. It's one of the 105 unresolved bugs that we are tracking for the beta:
EXTJSIV-4327 building from SVN fails

It isn't necessary to be able to do a build to benefit from access to SVN. The ability to see what changes are made against the various bugs/issues can be very valuable....not to mention such access has been paid for by many of us. There is no unsolvable technical reason to hide the source code, it must be a management decision.

Edmund
30 Nov 2011, 3:17 PM
We have made good progress on reducing the bug count and now we are down to 26 (see attached). Our goal is to release 4.1 Beta by year's end.

Note: the lower bug count is a result of fixed and postponed bugs. As usual, the release notes will contain a list of all bugs that have been addressed.

dawesi
30 Nov 2011, 6:15 PM
Firstly, I don't buy the excuse from some people here that projects may be ruined becase a 'stable' release is not available. This is a risk you took when implementing a first release of version 4 (it's basic project risk mitigation!), so you should be willing to wear the price of a delay because of it.

Secondly, by hiding SVN from developers (who have paid for access to it) you also shelter them from potential fixes to their issues. It's really simple to roll backward and forward on releases, so why not just let people have access at their own peril. This has always been the case for SVN, so I can't see why anyone would whinge about a broken SVN build, when it's clear the trunk is 'unstable' by definition.

So to recap... people whinging shouldn't be, and Sencha need to be less exclusive with SVN (a paid premium service)...

Just my 2c...

ykey
30 Nov 2011, 7:39 PM
All I want is a public JIRA. The forum bug reporting is a joke.

danCTS
1 Dec 2011, 11:37 AM
All I want is a public JIRA. The forum bug reporting is a joke.
+1

onestep
1 Dec 2011, 12:15 PM
All I want is a public JIRA. The forum bug reporting is a joke.
+1

mitchellsimoens
1 Dec 2011, 12:30 PM
Some info on 4.1.0 in SVN...

Historically, we have tried to only allow the version that is beta. So when 4.1.0 beta comes out, it should make it's way to SVN. I'm sure you know that this is the bleeding edge code that is in SVN so it may be a bumpy road is some cases. Personally, I update my local git repo couple times a day and I have no problems I couldn't easily correct.

marc.fearby
1 Dec 2011, 7:07 PM
This may not come as a surprise to everyone, but a largish system I'm developing in 4.0.7 with the help of Ext Designer 1.2 is quite broken when I test it against ext-4.1-pr1, particularly when it comes to nested/complex layouts. So I guess these are known bugs and is to be expected with a product not yet in beta. The offending nested/complex layouts are nothing but forms with column layout with containers for each column containing field sets and lots of child components. Nothing that Ext Designer hasn't let me get away with. Oh, and a grid with a column header with child columns won't even show in ext-4.1-pr1 (though this same grid that Ext Designer let me create is now crashing that same program a fair bit, I must say).

The kitchen sink looks great in Chrome 15, less so in Firefox 8, and terrible in IE8, though I'm sure that's definitely known to be the case right now.

dongryphon
1 Dec 2011, 9:42 PM
This may not come as a surprise to everyone, but a largish system I'm developing in 4.0.7 with the help of Ext Designer 1.2 is quite broken when I test it against ext-4.1-pr1, particularly when it comes to nested/complex layouts. So I guess these are known bugs and is to be expected with a product not yet in beta. The offending nested/complex layouts are nothing but forms with column layout with containers for each column containing field sets and lots of child components. Nothing that Ext Designer hasn't let me get away with. Oh, and a grid with a column header with child columns won't even show in ext-4.1-pr1 (though this same grid that Ext Designer let me create is now crashing that same program a fair bit, I must say).

There are definite layout bugs in 4.1 PR1. We believe we have just about all of them correct at this point, which is a goal for the next public build.

If you care to post an example that mimics what you are doing (like a bug report http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?138165-How-to-report-a-bug), I could test it against the current build. If it finds any latent problems in the layout system, that would be extremely helpful. :)


The kitchen sink looks great in Chrome 15, less so in Firefox 8, and terrible in IE8, though I'm sure that's definitely known to be the case right now.

Indeed. IE support in Neptune is still a lot of work.

Thanks for the feedback.

zombeerose
2 Dec 2011, 7:48 AM
@mitchellsimoens
Thanks for the follow-up. While I understand and can agree with the SVN policy regarding past versions, I feel that they should not apply to version 4 of the software. As soon as Sencha chose to issue a Preview Release of ExtJS, the historical guidelines should have dissolved. I think SVN should be available immediately for all minor & patch releases of version 4. Moving forward, any work on version 5 can be behind doors with SVN limited to the beta release.

As far as I understand, one of the main goals of the Preview Release was to stabilize and get real-world testing performed by the community. I have reported several bugs in 4.1PR and find it quite frustrating that I don't have access to the corresponding patches that would be in SVN. That was one of the biggest reasons I purchased Premium Support.

I fully accept responsibility that my code may be broken worse if I run the bleeding edge SVN commit. That doesn't mean I'm going to update to the HEAD tag constantly and then start complaining that the code is broken. I want access to the Sencha fixes.

I want to add that I am thrilled with the direction of the code-base. Recently, I had to work on a product developed with Ext 3.3 and was amazed when mentally comparing the changes between 3 and 4. Keep up the awesomeness!!!

Just my 1.33∞ cents.




Some info on 4.1.0 in SVN...

Historically, we have tried to only allow the version that is beta. So when 4.1.0 beta comes out, it should make it's way to SVN. I'm sure you know that this is the bleeding edge code that is in SVN so it may be a bumpy road is some cases. Personally, I update my local git repo couple times a day and I have no problems I couldn't easily correct.

mitchellsimoens
2 Dec 2011, 7:56 AM
@mitchellsimoens
Thanks for the follow-up. While I understand and can agree with the SVN policy regarding past versions, I feel that they should not apply to version 4 of the software. As soon as Sencha chose to issue a Preview Release of ExtJS, the historical guidelines should have dissolved. I think SVN should be available immediately for all minor & patch releases of version 4. Moving forward, any work on version 5 can be behind doors with SVN limited to the beta release.

As far as I understand, one of the main goals of the Preview Release was to stabilize and get real-world testing performed by the community. I have reported several bugs in 4.1PR and find it quite frustrating that I don't have access to the corresponding patches that would be in SVN. That was one of the biggest reasons I purchased Premium Support.

I fully accept responsibility that my code may be broken worse if I run the bleeding edge SVN commit. That doesn't mean I'm going to update to the HEAD tag constantly and then start complaining that the code is broken. I want access to the Sencha fixes.

I want to add that I am thrilled with the direction of the code-base. Recently, I had to work on a product developed with Ext 3.3 and was amazed when mentally comparing the changes between 3 and 4. Keep up the awesomeness!!!

Just my 1.33∞ cents.

While I can understand and sympathize we were making some radical changes. Yes, we wanted to see if we were on the right track with PR1 but working with it locally during this time it wasn't that stable with that many of radical changes. It wouldn't be a good idea to get that out so beta wasn't close to being ready. In fact a PR2 wasn't really feasible with the number of bugs we created for ourselves by releasing a PR1. Most of the bugs were because we released it at such an early stage and if we would have waited a little longer I don't think a lot of those bugs would be there.

I agree with you... I wish I could just dump Ext JS 3 (and ST1 for ST2)... it is such a great experience working with Ext JS 4 over Ext JS 3. And seeing it overcome a lot of the huge bugs is great to experience! Don, Nige, Evan and Phil are doing a phenomenal job on Ext JS 4... they deserve loads of beer!

tvanzoelen
2 Dec 2011, 8:14 AM
I hope I can go live with 4.1 in januari 2012. We are still running on 3.4. A fabulous product.

I am very busy explaining here in my company and to our customers why new delopments are taking so long, because I decided to take that ExtJs 4 road. I hope it wasn't a wrong decision.

But ok, I like the improvements. Meanwhile I am entertaining myself here on the forum. But collapsing grids and stuff on columnresizes and splittermoves, these kind of bugs I hope to see solved in 4.1.

PranKe01
5 Dec 2011, 12:49 AM
Hi guys,

I tried the new Neptune theme and I love it. But I got the problem, that I need the neptune-scoped.css, because otherwise it kills my layout of my page :( Will the scoped version be included in the beta/final, or do I have to use the old ExtJS style?

Thanks for that information!

Edit: Using this item, the design of the PLZ field looks strange.
{
width: 180,
xtype: 'numberfield',
fieldLabel: 'PLZ/Ort',
name: 'zip',
value: 0,
maxValue: 99999,
minValue: 0
}29793

gchalissery
15 Dec 2011, 11:18 AM
Do you have any update about 4.1 release or 4.1 beta releaase ?? We have our backs against the walls with no ability to give deadlines to clients.

mitchellsimoens
15 Dec 2011, 11:19 AM
very very very soon!

nomack84
15 Dec 2011, 11:49 AM
Maybe for the next week?

pscanlon1
16 Dec 2011, 4:58 PM
Changes to model.

Hi, I was wondering why you added an "id" property to the models in 4.1? When I send a request to the server, we automatically map our JSON object into JAVA object. When we started testing with 4.1, we noticed every model now has a mysterious ID property auto generated.

It makes sense that the model should have an ID, but not all the time.

zmathew
17 Dec 2011, 3:17 AM
Other than soon or very soon or very very soon, do you have a tentative date for 4.1 beta and 4.1 release. If you are so close to release why would you not share a tentative release date ?

ykey
17 Dec 2011, 2:10 PM
very very very soon!

you missed this one

brianpolk
19 Dec 2011, 4:57 AM
We are very fortunate to have inside representation reading and responding to these forums. Your forum, like your products, are outstanding. That said, I am hoping that at this point someone on the inside can give an official estimate on the release date for 4.1 beta.

I appreciate Mr. Simoens' enthusiastic statement, and I share in that enthusiasm, but other stakeholders within my organization are not convinced. Perhaps if I could know what "very, very, very soon" means to Sencha, I could use that information to my advantage (and yours). If it is intentionally undefined, the statement contains no information. If it has a meaning within Sencha, it would be very helpful to have that translated into standard units of time. Just estimates. Or even just someone's gut feeling of an expected date.

I also appreciate the speculation from the user that suggested patience. However, there are many stakeholders within this very large commercially licensed organization. I am not an impatient hobbiest. I am asked two or three times a week about 4.1. The most difficult part is continuing to carry the Sencha banner with the same answers, or lack of them, week after week.

So please, help us out. I am optimistic that we will see the beta in a week or so. If that is not a reasonable expectation, it is essential that I have some new facts about progress or estimated release forecast.

LesJ
19 Dec 2011, 7:59 AM
Our goal is to release 4.1 Beta by year's end.


Edmund, hi!

Can we still expect release 4.1 Beta this year?

abraxxa
20 Dec 2011, 1:53 AM
@pscanlon1 (http://www.sencha.com/forum/member.php?275166-pscanlon1): Not filtering user input will lead to interesting results...

utkarshgaur
20 Dec 2011, 12:02 PM
They already asked not to move to 4. If you did that you should have known the risk involved. I, like many of you, am also anticipating a quick release but we should not take undue advantage of Sencha releasing their internal deadlines to us. Stop jumping on their backs, I am pretty sure everyone there must be working really hard on 4.1

danCTS
20 Dec 2011, 12:32 PM
@utkarshgaur
Well they had no problem collecting our money for commercial licenses for version 4. The salesman that sold us the licenses, never said that it was incomplete and full of bugs. The salesmen back in May 2011 was not like maybe you should wait to develop any production sites in the version i just sold you till 4.1 comes out in Jan 2012.

I use frameworks in all sorts of languages, the problem I have with this one is they get the open source users to find all their bugs for them and report them through a POS of a bug tracking system.
Then if you want to use the framework on a commercial site, you have to pay for a commercial license. Well the only problem is, they did not sell me a commercial (production) ready version of the software I paid for a license for.

Up to this point EXT4 has left a very bad taste in my mouth, hopefully 4.1 will be a usable production version, so I don't have to spend all my time monkey patching 4.0.x

christophe.geiser
20 Dec 2011, 2:16 PM
+1

they get the open source users to find all their bugs for them and report them through a POS of a bug tracking system

would add, [open source users] spend a lot of time digging into the source code, propose fix hardly taken into account (or months after), bump and re-bump important issues without being noticed, and finally do not get access to cleaner versions of the code base (to which they contributed), only available to support subscribers.

Whatever the quality of 4.1 version, the problem is that the current strategy can only frustrate sencha's biggest asset: its community. On my side, I stopped reporting bugs, and would not be surprised to see a real open-source fork appear sometime.

Cheers
C.

matt.comb@imardainc.com
21 Dec 2011, 2:47 AM
This issue here is one of transparency.

A well informed development team with reliable dates, can decide what upgrade path to take

e.g. possible options are:

* Stay at 3.x
* Upgrade hop to 4.0 and on to 4.1
* Delay until 4.1 is released.

In a true high-tech environment, noone has the luxury of standing still for months on end, and every percent of efficiency is the difference between you and the next company. You can't always wait for production releases to stabalise before initiating a development movement toward them, you have to pick up some momentum internally and get the bus moving and at times hope that things align.

If I were Sencha, I would slow down development by 5% and use the savings to communicate clearly and accurately the state of play including burn down charts of issues towards a release and known critical obstacles. 99% of the time, the informed will choose their own path when informed clearly and reliably, and there won't be the same level of animosity.

paipai
21 Dec 2011, 3:09 AM
And what about those who started a new application with the first ExtJS 4 release ?

First the app is still in developpement, more than 6 months later !
At each new ExtJS 4.x release there are some fix to do, to get the application run like it runs in the previous release (how much time lost ?!) !
At each new ExtJS release, the application can't work with internet explorer !
At each new release we can't make a demo the application !
At each new release we question the choice of ExtJS !

4.1 release will still add work to make our app run as it runs now (maybe more than other previous release). And will probably not fix all bugs but will add some new.

Again we will question about the choice of ExtJS !

Happy new year !

_matias_
21 Dec 2011, 11:10 AM
I might be wrong but it seems clear to me that Ext users can be divided in two different categories:

Open Source users who do not pay for the license
License-paying users
While it is fine to tell Open Source users that they should rely on a working version of Ext 4 only at their own risk and that they should give Sencha "breathing space" it is not acceptable for license-paying users. When one pays for a product one can expect not to be told to wait for a working version (as in working in a decent manner in all major browsers). At the very least the website marketing the license should state Ext 4 current shortcomings not
Ext JS 4 makes it easy to build an app that gives you the power of the web regardless of what browser your customer uses. (cut and pasted today). And then, at the moment of buying, every customer should, in my opinion, be clearly reminded that the performance with some browsers is less than ideal.

That is just the opinion of someone who has been waiting for a year to commit commercially to Ext and who has been working privately with Ext in the meantime so as to be ready when the moment comes. So let it be clear that I am not complaining as a paying customer of Sencha, nor complaining at all, just voicing an opinion on what is on track, according to me, to be a major PR disaster. I love Ext and all the Ext 4 breakthroughs and I am happy to wait, hoping Ext 4 comes to maturity in time for me to use it.

dwahli
22 Dec 2011, 6:18 AM
Sencha's silence about ExtJS 4.1 beta is worrying...
We have set aside some part of our current project (grid, layout) waiting for ExtJS 4.1 because there are too many issues with the current 4.07, but we couldn't wait any longer.

scottmartin
22 Dec 2011, 6:45 AM
Release is getting closer, but a few items have caused a slight delay. The goal is to get 4.1 ASAP, while still trying to as many critical items fixed as possible.

Regards,
Scott

Saintshroomie
22 Dec 2011, 7:33 AM
Release is getting closer, but a few items have caused a slight delay. The goal is to get 4.1 ASAP, while still trying to as many critical items fixed as possible.

I guess that counts as an update...

mitchellsimoens
22 Dec 2011, 7:34 AM
I guess that counts as an update...

We got a test case from a customer from the private beta that exposed a couple things at the 11th hour.

dontbugme
22 Dec 2011, 9:46 AM
Hi, do you have an updated ETA for the 4.1 beta release? Thanks.

mitchellsimoens
22 Dec 2011, 11:04 AM
Hi, do you have an updated ETA for the 4.1 beta release? Thanks.

Any day

LesJ
22 Dec 2011, 11:08 AM
Any day

I hope this means this year B)

mitchellsimoens
22 Dec 2011, 11:10 AM
I hope this means this year B)

Quite sure it should. Depends how fast these last bugs can get fixed

firefoxSafari
22 Dec 2011, 12:17 PM
We got a test case from a customer from the private beta that exposed a couple things at the 11th hour.

The private beta? What is this? In the interest of what others in this thread have said about transparency, could you please explain how one gets invited to these private betas? Do you buy a license, buy support... is it just by personal invitation from Sencha?

Honestly, the private beta for Designer was really frustrating to me. I paid for it and did my best to provide feedback until it got to the point where it seemed I was being ignored. But then, do the paying users get access to that beta? Nope, just SenchaCon attendees. Lovely.

Is this the future for Sencha products, private betas? Clearly it's your product and your perogative to do this, but it would be nice for the rest of us to know there are secret versions of the product out there that only a chosen few have access to.

mitchellsimoens
22 Dec 2011, 12:23 PM
We do private betas to get it out to some real world apps to make sure there aren't any huge bugs that weren't reported. I know you can ask to be part of it but I'm not sure what the selection process is.

We aren't the only ones that do private releases... lots of companies do it. Like it took me forever to get in Spotify for their US closed launch.

firefoxSafari
22 Dec 2011, 12:56 PM
@mitchellsimoens

Thanks for the clarification. I can understand why Sencha would want to do private releases and I'm not going to condone or comdenn it; like you say, it's standard practice. I'd just say, though, that if all support subscribers aren't invited then the marketing on the site seems a little misleading -

Test bug fixes, preview new features, see every code checkin through direct access to the SVN HEAD.

Just trying to weigh the benefits of a support subscription here.

Also, like I said, I think their selection process for Designer 2.0 left a lot to be desired. Those who believed in the concept enough to pre-order the original version before it was even out should have had a shot instead of just turning it into a marketing gimmick for SenchaCon.

Thanks again - not trying to be too argumentative and certainly not attacking you. Like everyone else, I just want the latest and greatest. Hopefully Ext 4.1 and Designer 2.x are out soon and are amazing and everyone will be happy :D

mitchellsimoens
22 Dec 2011, 12:58 PM
Not sure your religion so don't take this the wrong way but a Christmas present may be in order :)

dontbugme
22 Dec 2011, 4:51 PM
It would be helpful if we didn't have to ask in a forum regarding the status, but could look at a public bug tracker to see the outstanding critical issues that need to be resolved before the beta can be released..

DaviPresentia
23 Dec 2011, 1:45 AM
Any day

Nice, very kind of you....

mitchellsimoens
23 Dec 2011, 12:29 PM
Get it people!!!!!!!


http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?164313-Ext-JS-4.1-Beta-1-Now-Available

_matias_
23 Dec 2011, 2:07 PM
Downloading at the moment and saving Don's cover post for a cigarette in the patio in a couple of minutes. Way to building climax! This will sure make lots of people happy (at least I hope so). Thanks for the heads up!

ykey
23 Dec 2011, 2:39 PM
Not sure if it is a known issue, but things aren't looking too great in IE8.

http://i.imgur.com/7FXIt.png
(http://i.imgur.com/7FXIt.png)
Nevermind I found it sorry - EXTJSIV-4701 - Panel headers are disconnected from panel body

dongryphon
23 Dec 2011, 9:10 PM
Not sure if it is a known issue, but things aren't looking too great in IE8.

Nevermind I found it sorry - EXTJSIV-4701 - Panel headers are disconnected from panel body

Thanks digging in so quickly!

Yeah, that was one of those we really really hated to ship with the Beta :(

dongryphon
23 Dec 2011, 9:12 PM
Downloading at the moment and saving Don's cover post for a cigarette in the patio in a couple of minutes.

Hopefully not as a wrap for the tobacco... :)

tvanzoelen
24 Dec 2011, 2:50 AM
Happy christmas to you to guys! Nice present.

Alinanila
23 Jan 2012, 12:59 AM
Another month has passed... are there any news on Ext 4.1?
What about IE7/8 Performance - several users mentioned that it has not increased - but even decreased.

Thanks in advance,
Alina

scottmartin
23 Jan 2012, 5:33 AM
Have a look at the following post:
http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?175599-Ext-JS-4.1-updates-(post-beta-1)

IE performance is always an issue and we are constantly working to provide a better solution with each release.

Regards,
Scott.

zombeerose
23 Jan 2012, 7:37 AM
@
mitchellsimoens

Is there any way to get included in the private beta? Please PM to discuss further.

mitchellsimoens
23 Jan 2012, 7:38 AM
@
mitchellsimoens

Is there any way to get included in the private beta? Please PM to discuss further.

Private beta has been over. That is for before beta rolls out to make sure we should go into beta.

rstuart
31 Jan 2012, 10:38 PM
If this thread isn't a clear indication that Sencha need to overhaul their development, release and bug reporting practices, then nothing is. Having a bug tracking system that is based on a forum just isn't viable.

Sencha, for the love of god, please make use of a proper bug tracking system. There are many of them available. Pick one, use it and make it available to your customers! Better yet, link it to your code base (maybe only for support subscribers). Provide a facility for users to submit patches. Who knows, it might even reduce your work load. This will go part of the way to restoring the faith your customers once had.

Don't stop there. Improve your release cycles and QA. There was a while there where you were getting more bug reports then you were able to fix bugs. That obviously isn't good. Break your releases up into smaler sizes. Release more often (every 2 weeks?). If you don't already, make sure you have a robust test suite and automated build server that builds and run tests on every commit to your VCS. All of this stuff is Software Engineering 101.

I don't mean for this post to takeaway from the good work you are doing. Writing and releasing a cross browser JavaScript Application/UI framework isn't easy. In fact, it is damn hard. That is why your products are so popular. If it was easy, we wouldn't need to come to you. But making these simple improvements in your practises will go a LONG way to improving your relationship with your customers.

As you guys know better then anyone, the world of Web Development is an extremely fast moving one. I hope Sencha can keep up. With these changes, I think you can.

mitchellsimoens
1 Feb 2012, 6:03 AM
If this thread isn't a clear indication that Sencha need to overhaul their development, release and bug reporting practices, then nothing is. Having a bug tracking system that is based on a forum just isn't viable.

Sencha, for the love of god, please make use of a proper bug tracking system. There are many of them available. Pick one, use it and make it available to your customers! Better yet, link it to your code base (maybe only for support subscribers). Provide a facility for users to submit patches. Who knows, it might even reduce your work load. This will go part of the way to restoring the faith your customers once had.

Don't stop there. Improve your release cycles and QA. There was a while there where you were getting more bug reports then you were able to fix bugs. That obviously isn't good. Break your releases up into smaler sizes. Release more often (every 2 weeks?). If you don't already, make sure you have a robust test suite and automated build server that builds and run tests on every commit to your VCS. All of this stuff is Software Engineering 101.

I don't mean for this post to takeaway from the good work you are doing. Writing and releasing a cross browser JavaScript Application/UI framework isn't easy. In fact, it is damn hard. That is why your products are so popular. If it was easy, we wouldn't need to come to you. But making these simple improvements in your practises will go a LONG way to improving your relationship with your customers.

As you guys know better then anyone, the world of Web Development is an extremely fast moving one. I hope Sencha can keep up. With these changes, I think you can.

We use Jira. The forums is just a place to post bugs.

babsjr77
1 Feb 2012, 7:44 AM
But the forums make it difficult to find outstanding bugs. Even a read-only view of Jira would be better than the existing forums for finding bugs.

rstuart
1 Feb 2012, 4:23 PM
We use Jira. The forums is just a place to post bugs.

No, a forum is a place for discussion.

tvanzoelen
2 Feb 2012, 12:55 AM
Please no fancy bugtracking systems, for my part the bugs are written down on a piece of toiletpaper, then make a copy of it and send it to the users per mail.

The thing that counts is that bugs gets fixed....for example the bug resizer was posted, read and set on fixed. That's the problem, the bug wasn't fixed or tested.

A public Jira is not going to change that problem.

mitchellsimoens
2 Feb 2012, 5:51 AM
No, a forum is a place for discussion.

It is that also.

LesJ
2 Feb 2012, 7:20 AM
It is that also.

The bugtracking systems that I saw had a lot of embedded discussions in them too :)

dawesi
3 Feb 2012, 4:36 AM
I disagree with some of the previous comments.

Personally I like the way Sencha does it ATM. It works well. There are many good ways to do bug tracking, this is just one of thousands. That's how it is, and until it stops working (if ever), I'm guessing Sencha will keep it. Adobe and many other large companies use forums as testing grounds for real bugs, and I see this process as no different.

Forums are a great way to allow a separate group of people to weed out the real bugs (from bad coding) and let the dev team concentrate on fixing them separately. This is what Sencha does, and I think it's an excellent way to work. You can post your code there litrally as easy as into any bug tracker, just as you can on your blog or whatever...

Someone suggested they where going to stop submitting bugs; hahaha.. too funny. That'll help. Settle down lads (and ladettes)

At the end of the day , the global rule of IT prevails, never use the first release version of any software in production, always wait until the first full point release, in this case 4.1 RTM, otherwise you significantly increase the risk your project going red if you don't.

I've taken one (about to be two) of my projects down the line of 4.x however I clearly state to stakeholders that there could be significant delays in the ui layer if the 4.1 release is delayed. When they sign off on this risk, they then have to wait; end of discussion. No pressure required.

If you've promised something you can't deliver because this framework hasn't gone 4.1, that's your fault, not Senchas, take the heat, it's yours. Anyone who expects a firm date on a variable scope programming project must not understand the nature of programming.

This is a community that has for six years been friendly, respectful and unselfish; let's keep it that way; chill out, take a deep breath, and go purchase a support subscription ;-)

gilfeather
3 Feb 2012, 8:09 AM
I agree with everything you have written except for the "chill out" portion. I have been friendly and supportive since 2.0 when I started using this product. I have paid for support subscription and various license fees for my team. I am very aware of the pitfalls of vendor software and how that can effect project schedules.

"Chilling out" in the face of serious delivery and software development practices however is not something that anyone should do. I want ExtJs to succeed and do well. I also want it to be a productive tool that enhances my team's ability to deliver products to my customers. Right now it is no longer enhancing productivity and is starting to hinder productivity. Each minor release is a disaster. My only conclusion is that there is absolutely NO regression and backwards compatability testing being done. It looks to me like the developers throw stuff into the product as they can under great pressure and duress doing the best they can. They do a bit of simple developer testing and call it good. My guess is that the release testing consists of running against the sample all control demo and maybe a few others before shipping it.

The community is doing QA for this product and quite frankly I'm tired of it. I expect beta releases, especially from a 4.0.7 to a 4.1 release with almost no functional changes to pretty seamless. 4 or 5 esoteric issues across all users is to be expected. Instead we get random changes to the documented API. Really, you changed the API and didn't even know it? How does that happen?

If we just "chill out" Sencha will think they are doing great and that we "like" their product. They won't fix their issues and we will be stuck going down with the ship. I encourage everyone who feels similarly to voice their opinion. This is clearly not a devloper problem but a management/resource problem and management is apparently not yet concerned.

As for me I am going to do what I have never done before. I'm going live with 4.0.1b1. I have no reason to believe that any of the future releases including RTM will be any better or worse. I expect that each will take me 3-5 days to get working and will have a completely new set of bugs and will require extensive QA support on my side.

mitchellsimoens
3 Feb 2012, 8:13 AM
We have many Jasmine tests that run with each pull request. We also have pixel comparison running and performance benchmarks (even on a P4 machine). QA wasn't the best but it has been a lot better and will continue to get better. Lately I had to do some major work on 4.1.0 that took a couple days to complete and yes, I did some testing with the examples but when I sent in the pull request for it to get merged in, the unit tests caught many errors I had made.

plleeuwm
3 Feb 2012, 2:38 PM
Good luck with 4.1.

aacoro
7 Feb 2012, 8:09 AM
Now that we have the 4.1 Beta out there for quite a few days, can we now get a estimate when the final release will be of 4.1?

tvanzoelen
7 Feb 2012, 8:11 AM
Or a beta3 with resizers?

nomack84
7 Feb 2012, 8:43 AM
The estimated release date is for mid march as Edmund comment in a forum post, and there will be a B3.
I guess that will be also a RC cycle, due to the importance of this release.

abraxxa
7 Feb 2012, 8:49 AM
Is it planned to add routes support to ExtJS like it exists in Sencha Touch?

ykey
7 Feb 2012, 6:14 PM
Not that I have heard. It sucks that all of the extra MVC functionality like routing and history support that was in the early ExtJS 4 alphas and promised was removed before release. It still seems so unfinished. And now they have added it to the Sencha Touch 2 betas. What about ExtJS 4?

Most of the talent at Sencha was moved to Sencha Touch 2 and I am hoping they find their way back to ExtJS 4 as soon as Sencha Touch 2 is released. Sencha Touch 2 already feels so much more polished than ExtJS 4.

malstroem
8 Feb 2012, 1:41 PM
@ykey

I totally agree!
It seems to me that all effort and all manpower is addressed to sencha touch nowadays.

Very sad for "good old" Ext JS addicts...

abraxxa
9 Feb 2012, 3:49 AM
The javascript code for the routes feature should be almost if not 100% identical between ExtJS and Touch so I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be included in ExtJS.

@Sencha: can you please join the discussion

PranKe01
9 Feb 2012, 5:31 AM
The beta2 has been released in the last year. When will the beta3/RC be released?

ykey
9 Feb 2012, 5:39 AM
The beta2 has been released in the last year. When will the beta3/RC be released?

No Beta 2 was released on 01/26/2012. I think you are thinking of Beta 1. Based on previous betas I would expect one near the end of Feb.

PranKe01
9 Feb 2012, 6:12 AM
Oh. Sorry my vault. I saw the following in the Q&A Forum for ExtJS 4.x:


Announcement: Ext JS 4.1 Beta 2 Now Available! (http://www.sencha.com/forum/announcement.php?f=87&a=17)mitchellsimoens (http://www.sencha.com/forum/member.php?22216-mitchellsimoens)

Views: 11,174
23 Dec 2011

Thats why I thought it's that old...

Grolubao
24 Feb 2012, 8:54 AM
I truly wanted to move to ExtJS 4. Having MVC is a great improvement, but itself alone shouldn't be the only reason to move. I believe they should have focused more on the ease of migrating from 3 to 4 which didn't happened, like it happened from 2 to 3.
At this point, there's no real value in migrating and paying to have ExtJS 4 running in our clients.

It's a pity, specially because I start having the feeling we're getting surpassed in technology. It's a very fast pacing industry, so if one doesn't keep up, it's competition will get the hang of it.

Definitely having a ticket system like JIRA or so helps a lot. The bugs shouldn't be in the forum. Also having the transparency to keep up to deadlines should be implemented. If I have a delay of 4 months to a client of mine, I'm out of the business, as simple as that.