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tewabit
13 Jan 2012, 12:56 PM
Hello Sencha -
I know you've been very reluctant to provide any information about release dates. As a client this puts many of us in very difficult situations as we try to communicate with business what expectations are about when we'll be able to release. So - I'm hoping with the beta now being out for a few weeks, you have at least some idea about what the release plan is for finishing up ExtJS 4.1.0. Can you provide any information about what to expect?
Will there be a beta 2? a beta 3? Or just 4.1.0 will be the next release?
Can you set any expectation about when the next release will be (beta 2 or final?) - is it 1 week? 2 weeks? 1 month? 3 months?
There must be some rough idea about what the release road map will be like - we'd be very grateful to have any information about it.

Thanks.

mitchellsimoens
13 Jan 2012, 1:13 PM
There will be a beta 2... we don't really do dates much anymore, we have been biten when we have a public date and miss it, that has a backlash.

tewabit
13 Jan 2012, 1:25 PM
Thanks for the response mitchellsimoens.

I would argue that you're experiencing a decent amount of backlash right now for not setting any expectations about dates (regardless of how rough) :)As a software engineer that needs to provide dates to business - I understand how difficult it is, especially when you're wrong...but I still believe open, early, transparent communication is always better than no communication. Without any dates your clients can only assume the worst (another 6 months?) - damaging your reputation and chances with prospective new clients. Unfortunately just within my software developer community, Sencha's reputation has severely suffered this past year because of the lack of communication...and I'm running out of excuses of why we're continuing to stick with it.
Anyway - one more plea - is there anyway you can narrow it down at all? Will beta 2 be available in less than a month? less than 3 months? less than 6 months?

Thanks.

brentdooley999
16 Jan 2012, 8:43 AM
I second this. If you guys were making video games you POSSIBLY could get away with a "you get it when it's done" attitude. But you aren't. You are making tools for businesses. You guys have to realize the we, as developers, have people to answer to. We have clients and bosses who also have their own bosses. We understand you are moving as fast as possible, just as we all are, but "We don't give estimates because we aren't very good at it." is a terrible philosophy.

Asken
16 Jan 2012, 1:03 PM
I second this. If you guys were making video games you POSSIBLY could get away with a "you get it when it's done" attitude. But you aren't. You are making tools for businesses. You guys have to realize the we, as developers, have people to answer to. We have clients and bosses who also have their own bosses. We understand you are moving as fast as possible, just as we all are, but "We don't give estimates because we aren't very good at it." is a terrible philosophy.

third...

lagnat
16 Jan 2012, 5:29 PM
This, coupled with the svn debacle is more serious than you (Sencha) may believe. I don't know who else at Sencha reads these forums, so I ended up opening a support ticket to make our feelings known. It may be beneficial for others do the same... or it may not.

bret
17 Jan 2012, 5:33 AM
I am also eagerly waiting for information about the ExtJS 4.1 release.

Currently we are experiencing problems due to a bug which has been solved in 4.1. Using the beta version I can acknowledge that. Now waiting for information about a release date.

xxz00
17 Jan 2012, 8:20 AM
I am also waiting for more information about 4.1 release. Currently we are using 4.1 beta in development since there are two major bugs(Tree Store) in 4.0.7. Our application will go live in April, and I need to know if 4.1 will be available by then.

Thanks a lot!

Nom4d3
17 Jan 2012, 9:30 AM
We just need more builds... We don't need huge packages of bugs fixed. Specially during this beta stage. Maybe a simple weekly release with few stuff fixed would make us much more happy than you think.

I'm saying that because there some bugs on 4.1 beta that I know are internally fixed (at least they are marked as fixed on the forums), but we don't have access to them. And sometimes we have to wait months to see that important piece of code in our hands.

My team is working hard here to move our applications from 2.x and 3.x to 4.x. But sometimes is frustrating spend more time trying to figure out a solution for a bug than coding.

brentdooley999
17 Jan 2012, 12:05 PM
I would actually prefer weekly builds with less changes to large, monolithic builds. I would assume Sencha's fear is that we might expect too much out of each build and be disappointed. However, we're all developers here. We know what to expect. Just put a list of all fixed bugs in the readme file and let us fend for ourselves.

Sencha, you're always going to have malcontents but it seems like the majority of your users (including myself) only start to get upset when we feel like we're left in the dark.

matt.comb@imardainc.com
17 Jan 2012, 1:30 PM
I think Sencha actually have an opportunity here to empower the extended community to assist more than they currently are.

Weekly builds (or Source access) would encourage developers to work actively with Sencha to resolve issues rather than sitting waiting for an unknown release to drop

The tone of the comments from the community I think supports this.

stevil
17 Jan 2012, 2:29 PM
I think Sencha are in something of a Catch-22 - damned if they provide dates and don't make them, damned if they don't provide dates at all. Given the debacle that was the 4.0 release, I can appreciate Sencha not wanting to be burned again.

I also think that a normal customer response to this would be to ask for smaller point releases, so as to lower sensitivity to dates - smaller, more frequent updates obviates the need for dates, to some degree.

The problem here, is that 4.0 performance was so bad that it forced the team to go back to the drawing board on the layout engine. While I can't and won't speak for the team, or anyone at Sencha, I can imagine that it would be nearly impossible to turn out small releases while this refactoring took place (and remember, it needs to take place just to fulfill the performance promises of 4.0!)

With all of that said, I hope Sencha gets it right, and not fast. Unfortunately for me, I no longer have the luxury of being an early adopter or tester, as I've blown major delivery schedules over 4.0. I eagerly await whatever results...

stevil

matt.comb@imardainc.com
17 Jan 2012, 2:36 PM
I agree with your thoughts with regards to major rewrites etc, its very difficult to post a date and stick to it.

Now however, we have moved past preview and into Beta mode, it should be feasible that there is a weekly build with x issue resolutions included. Some incremental progress will be very well received I'm sure.

I also still stress that there is an opportunity here to engage the community further and have them actually assist in this process. whether a weekly update or 6 monthly update, if the community is at the end of the pipeline receiving the drop, they will offer little more value than pointing out something doesn't work and sending it back.

If you can gear the development pipeline to include the community along the way, having community submit fixes for issues, and test cases for faults etc, that is how you drive yourself out of a messy situation like this.

I guarantee the community contains many experts in different areas of the code base, who will provide valuable input if given the opportunity.

NelsonN
17 Jan 2012, 9:13 PM
There will be a beta 2... we don't really do dates much anymore, we have been biten when we have a public date and miss it, that has a backlash.

This is not a solution, the best solution is to bring a VP Engineering that knows Enterprise Software

urban.novak
17 Jan 2012, 11:23 PM
Can you at least provide an estimate, when 4.1 be finished and released?
- a month
- 3 month
- even longer


There will be a beta 2... we don't really do dates much anymore, we have been biten when we have a public date and miss it, that has a backlash.

danigoldman
20 Jan 2012, 7:06 AM
I concur with what other have said. ExtJS upgrades are an important part of our product roadmap. Given that we don't have an ExtJS roadmap (even a rough one), it makes it somewhat challenging for us.

mandro
21 Jan 2012, 7:13 AM
Here an example for multi-application with MVC architecture, using Ext.app.* and Ext.Loader. Try it
Might be a suggestion to include other versions.

mitchellsimoens
21 Jan 2012, 7:28 AM
Here an example for multi-application with MVC architecture, using Ext.app.* and Ext.Loader. Try it
Might be a suggestion to include other versions.

Does it load every file separately in your bundle? If so, this is not production ready. You shouldn't download each file separately, that is very expensive.

mandro
23 Jan 2012, 6:57 AM
In development, a bundle has the same folder structure that the application. I use
Ext.Loader for use the new dynamic dependency loading capability.

In production, could I use the newly-introduced Sencha SDK tools to obtain all clases in a single file. Then, I have one file to load for a bundle. Could be use asynchronous loading to load these bundles in my app on demand.

mandro
13 Feb 2012, 8:17 AM
I was working to extend Ext.application from MVC to HMVC.
I show an example builded with HMVC architecture.

The application contains bundles, its has the same folder structure like application.
The bundle's controllers has the same application bus event.
The bundles have optional main view to be injected in application viewport (shell) by a defined placeholder. (I use Ext.ComponentQuery to view-discovery, view-injection).

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff921075%28v=pandp.20%29.aspx

Asken
28 Feb 2012, 1:34 AM
So... any update on when we can have 4.1, yet or still nothing?