PDA

View Full Version : Ext Designer 1.x



Pages : 1 [2]

jay@moduscreate.com
6 Sep 2009, 12:49 PM
What is the release date?

A release date is when something is made available to the public, but that's nit important right now. :)

NBRed5
7 Sep 2009, 1:47 AM
Hi,

I have created a panel with layout 'Column' and then added 2 panels to act as the columns, each of which have correctly had the property columnWidth defined, however when I try to put .5 or 0.5 in the property value it does not accept the '.' character. This is a major limitation when trying to define column widths as a percentage as 50% should be .5 or 0.5.

aconran
7 Sep 2009, 6:57 AM
Hi,

I have created a panel with layout 'Column' and then added 2 panels to act as the columns, each of which have correctly had the property columnWidth defined, however when I try to put .5 or 0.5 in the property value it does not accept the '.' character. This is a major limitation when trying to define column widths as a percentage as 50% should be .5 or 0.5.

Yes, this will be fixed in any upcoming release. At the moment all of the number fields within the PropertyGrid at the bottom right are restricted to integers; (sorry for the oversight).

In the meantime use an hbox layout with 2 panels; each with a flex of 1.

Cybjorg
7 Sep 2009, 9:14 PM
In the meantime use an hbox layout with 2 panels; each with a flex of 1.

And how do we assign a flex of 1? I am missing that in the variable list, somehow.

Mike Robinson
17 Sep 2009, 4:13 PM
Post #155 from Abe.

Our initial thoughts for a Designer license with unlimited usage is 150 - 200 a year.I'm ASSUMING he's talking $USD, if its euros then there's no way I'm touching it for that price.

I think that the harsh reality is that as soon as you release this, someone else will within a couple of months produce the same thing ... either "for free" or as a publicly-available website hosted "somewhere." Once you have shown the course, someone else can very quickly follow it.

Even a technically inferior product can steal the revenue from you ... and here's why: ExtJS, itself is, very-effectively, "free." No one's gonna pay even $200 ... much less "a year" ... to use something that "is free" more conveniently.

I know ... I know ... ExtJS is "licensed." Ahem. But possession is the greater part of valor.

The best possible strategy for you is ... give it away. If you need revenue, turn to ExtJS to get that. "A rising tide lifts all boats." Put a PayPal "Donate!" box on the site ... no kidding folks, it actually works.

"$200 a year" is "$1,000 in just 5 years" and "$2,000 in just 10 years" and ...

... it just is never going to happen. Develop it, and give it away. Ask people to contribute money to the cause and they will do so.

Consider ExtJS itself: if you could not download it, it would probably cost upward of $5,000 and would include an annual support contract just to keep it "alive." And the project would never have achieved critical mass: any other no-cost framework would have destroyed it. JavaScript frameworks are free... necessarily because the entire file is downloaded to the client machine anyway. And so are the tools that go with them. They are "enabling technologies" which make possible other professional-service sales.

I need a design-tool ... tomorrow. A f-r-e-e design tool. Preferably hosted already. Doesn't have to be "the best one out there." Does have to be "free," and "available tomorrow morning." I am not "cheap." But I do know what will fly and what will not.

Mike Robinson
17 Sep 2009, 4:26 PM
No, it will be a cross-platform desktop application.

We felt that many customers would not have been comfortable developing on a web page.
Bzzzt! Disqualified! Next!

I'm perfectly aware that a designer which was built using ExtJS can run on a hosted web-site and, furthermore, can run "anywhere in the world" at no cost to me. I therefore conclude that the only possible reason why your tool would not run on that environment is so that you can charge me $200 a year.

If this deployment strategy is maintained, Designer will be a stone-dead (and expensive) dodo-bird.

This is the Internet. Customers can speak to you plainly and tell you that the Emperor Has No Clothes and this might not be what you want to hear. But the customer is always, always, always right.

Animal
17 Sep 2009, 9:56 PM
I need a design-tool ... tomorrow.

You really don't.

It is actually more productive in the medium to long term to learn to write and read ExtJS Component config objects.

The principles are logical, and properly indented code can be read, and the resulting UI envisaged.

Developing this ability brings you SO much more than whipping up some secret sauce from a whizzywig tool.

abnervv
18 Sep 2009, 5:47 AM
It's easy people like animal disqualify this tool, cuz they have a deep knowledge about extjs, but there are lot of people who need a tool like that, there is a big difference about... know how to make sth... and know what sth can do and use that...

Animal
18 Sep 2009, 9:55 AM
But you're just saving up that trouble.

Because when the time comes when you HAVE TO do some programming (and it will), you then won't have a clue.

abe.elias
18 Sep 2009, 11:42 AM
I believe I understand your perspective Nige. I have a slightly different take.

If we can improve 30-50% of the code that developers create to build their RIA's then that's 30-50% of code that we don't have to divert our talented resources. As a result, we can devote more of our attention to solving the functionality of the application rather than its interface.

The Designer + Direct will enable developers to crank out high quality code in a fraction of the time. While this might be viewed through your eyes as just delaying the inevitable, I see it as one less place we need to focus our precious time on.

celiane
22 Sep 2009, 3:23 AM
not available for sale? is when? http://www.extjs.com/store/extjs/
What new price, what package include?

dawesi
22 Sep 2009, 9:51 PM
I believe I understand your perspective Nige. I have a slightly different take.
.

There's the key word. TAKE.

As one of those who's been around since day dot, I think that you need to remember where Ext came from and who helped get ExtJS to the point that it pays your mortgage. Many, many of the features and ideas are OURS. For you to say newbies are not here to be helped is completely against the grain of this community and against the spirit of the product that many of us have contributed to. I'm pretty annoyed. The spirit Jack brought to this community is giving. We begged Jack to accept money, Jack tried to refuse that money. He is a giving bloke, which allows us to give back to him and his vision.

dawesi
22 Sep 2009, 9:57 PM
Also:

There is more than your designer already available. The ExtJS 2.0 designer does a whole bunch of things and there are other tools too. I'm guessing if you charge for this then it will soon become the Ext 3.0 community designer as we will upgrade it to do more and then your efforts will be for nothing. Thinking you are the only centre of the universe is a big mistake.

PS: I don't use direct... I've used it and I don't see the benefit as we have our own way of talking back and forward. Direct is but one of many ways to skin that cat. The beauty of ext is that direct is external to the main framework, not core.

-----

As for the designer, not just use the model Aptana uses? Why can't you release two versions:

1) Free Version - allows you to layout stuff, but no code generation backend - a tool that brings people into our community as a starting point.

2) Paid Version - generates code for those who want the Extra features and then you could put some extra features in the paid version.

danh2000
22 Sep 2009, 11:07 PM
For you to say newbies are not here to be helped is completely against the grain of this community and against the spirit of the product that many of us have contributed to.

dawesi, I'm not sure what abe wrote (at least in the post you reference) that led you to believe that he was saying "newbies are not here to be helped"?

I read the post as saying "if the designer product enables the quality of code to improve, why shouldn't people be encouraged to use it."

I'm not arguing the pros or cons of the designer (I'm not sure I would use it personally), or even whether it should be a paid or free product, I just wonder if the sentiment of the post was confused?

Animal
22 Sep 2009, 11:33 PM
In fact I think he was referring to my slightly purist, nerdy coder perspective that WYSIWYG tools are evil, and people should learn to write code.

danh2000
22 Sep 2009, 11:48 PM
In fact I think he was referring to my slightly purist, nerdy coder perspective that WYSIWYG tools are evil, and people should learn to write code.

I think many would agree with your opinion; I know I do. I do still think there is a place for designer though, especially if people learn from the generated code, and it could be useful for quick mockups.

I have to disclaim though that I haven't used it myself and am probably unlikely to, but am curious about the outcome and adoption.

abe.elias
23 Sep 2009, 5:57 AM
In fact I think he was referring to my slightly purist, nerdy coder perspective that WYSIWYG tools are evil, and people should learn to write code.

Haha. That was my point. Nothing evil with a little "point and click" ;)

@dawesi

Not many people know this, but I, too, have been involved since the beginning. Even before jackslocum.com, when it was a post on blogspot (http://jackslocum.blogspot.com/)(ver .22). I, just like you, donated so Jack could try to pay his mortgage. The reality is that model did not work.

I am a product of our community. I eat, sleep, and breath Ext, so please don't mistake my intentions.

cginzel
23 Sep 2009, 6:02 AM
In fact I think he was referring to my slightly purist, nerdy coder perspective that WYSIWYG tools are evil, and people should learn to write code.

I respect your point, but I would say I prefer to write code and not do layout. Layout is mundane, boring and tedious. I'd prefer to have a tool do as much of that for me as possible. Ideally there will be hooks in to the generated layout that will allow me to inject my application code allowing me to focus on the real application logic.

jay@moduscreate.com
23 Sep 2009, 6:09 AM
Haha. That was my point. Nothing evil with a little "point and click" ;)

@dawesi

Not many people know this, but I, too, have been involved since the beginning. Even before jackslocum.com, when it was a post on blogspot (http://jackslocum.blogspot.com/)(ver .22). I, just like you, donated so Jack could try to pay his mortgage. The reality is that model did not work.

I am a product of our community. I eat, sleep, and breath Ext, so please don't mistake my intentions.

Wow, right on dude!!

abe.elias
23 Sep 2009, 6:10 AM
@cginzel

You might find this post helpful.

http://www.extjs.com/forum/showthread.php?p=378242#post378242

cginzel
24 Sep 2009, 5:45 AM
@abe,

Thanks, I've been following this thread and am keeping it in my subscription list to follow the progress. but I'm glad you pointed that specific post out to me because now reading it for the second time, it sank in a little more. :D

I for one do see this as a useful addition. I know Animal is an expert regarding the internals and I've read many of his posts and learned a lot so I value what he has to say. But I still believe that from my lazy perspective, I'd rather have to know as little as possible about the Ext framework because my real interest is in building my application specific functionality. As beautiful and masterful a framework as it is, Ext should just be there to help me get to my end goal and not be part of the goal in of itself.

bkraut
6 Oct 2009, 2:10 PM
Hi,

I've read on this site http://ajaxian.com/archives/ext-designer-preview-tool-to-go-with-ext-30 that Ext designer will not offer code generation. Is this true?

We need a tool, where we will be able to customize the GUI designer and add CodePress code editor and an option to store the code in the database (source and minified) with version control and version comparison (With a help of http://snowtide.com/files/media/jsdifflib/jsdifflibtest.html).

I thought Ext Designer will offer most of this (Access to the code and ability to customize it for our own needs). Will the source be available? What of this will be available?

I'm attaching an extension editor, where we need something like this tool.

Thanks in advance.

jay@moduscreate.com
6 Oct 2009, 2:25 PM
Eventually, the tool will be able to export designs.

bkraut
6 Oct 2009, 3:08 PM
Will the source code be available also?

Jack Liao
9 Oct 2009, 12:43 AM
We are working on that. :)

Could you share the progress of it with us ?:)

Jack Liao
9 Oct 2009, 12:44 AM
Will the source code be available also?
wish it;)

SnakeMedia
11 Oct 2009, 2:57 AM
NICE! That is breauthfully! That Ext Designer sees like Gnome or Glade Widget Application.

Good job, Ext Designer vs. Glade 3.x.

I know different panels by Glade 3.x and Ext Designer 3.x.
Panels:
Ext Designer 3.x <-> GTK Glade Designer 3.x
ToolBox <-> Palette
Component Inspector <-> Inspector
Component Config <-> Properties

Can you know that different duel with Extjs and GTK / Gnome. Well done, Ext have been hit poor pengiun. :S.

GTK Glade 3.x under Ubuntu 8.x or 9.x
http://ostatic.com/files/images/Glade%20screenshot%205

Ext Designer 3.x
http://www.extjs.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/xds.png

I agree your application. Good work and have fun for duell again Glade 3.x! :D

Best regards, SnakeMedia

aconran
12 Oct 2009, 5:41 AM
A bump for more details:
http://www.extjs.com/blog/2009/10/08/ext-js-designer-preview/

And an updated screencast:
http://www.extjs.com/api/xds/screencasts/designer.html

New Features

Duplicating Components
Transforming Components
Undo/Redo
Configuration Searching
Auto Updating
Screenshots

bkraut
12 Oct 2009, 2:33 PM
We played with both old and new Ext Designer and I have to admit that I'm quite impressed with achieved. But I think there are several things missing - this is just constructional opinion.

First of all Extjs designer should have another tree of project components. Let say I can create ExtendedEditorGrid which I save as a new component in the library. But I would like to subclass this new component for my project - create an editable grid for set of countries, for example. This is more than welcome if the Ext designer is also intended for editing project workspaces not just to create components.

Another thing is Component Config - this are properties of an component. In this position I think would be necesarry to have two tabs - Properties, which is exactly the property grid which is now available and tab Events with all the events for a component, where user could enter event functions on double click.

The final notice is inability to edit source code - maybe this could be done in another tab in main designer view. Most of the time in all development frameworks we write code by hand, and user interface designer is used just for field positioning and layout. Thus I think editing code and designing in designer is in most of the time overlapping.

This is not critics, just my perspective.

aconran
12 Oct 2009, 5:30 PM
We played with both old and new Ext Designer and I have to admit that I'm quite impressed with achieved.

Thanks, we appreciate the feedback. Everyone of your features which you have mentioned below we've already been discussing internally and will eventually be part of the product.



Let say I can create ExtendedEditorGrid which I save as a new component in the library. But I would like to subclass this new component for my project - create an editable grid for set of countries, for example.
Check out when you right click and hit save to toolbox. We are also looking at implementing a "promote to class" feature.



Another thing is Component Config - this are properties of an component. In this position I think would be necesarry to have two tabs - Properties, which is exactly the property grid which is now available and tab Events with all the events for a component, where user could enter event functions on double click.

The final notice is inability to edit source code - maybe this could be done in another tab in main designer view. Most of the time in all development frameworks we write code by hand, and user interface designer is used just for field positioning and layout. Thus I think editing code and designing in designer is in most of the time overlapping.


Both of these features are slated for after the 1.0 final release. How many of you would feel comfortable developing in the designer and how many of you would prefer to use your own tools when editing code?

bkraut
12 Oct 2009, 11:15 PM
Now, we are developing everything in Eclipse. The case is that in our example we would like to modify Ext Designer to allow us to store components or files in the database.

We checked a project jsdifflib which also enables comparison of versions, so we also would like to add that functionality to the Ext Designer code manipulation, where we would be able to track all the changes of specific component. Our tool enables us to change application model in runtime, so if we could also be able to design the application GUI with specialised designer in runtime that would be perfect.

I think designer is very good, but after 5 minutes of playing with it, we missed some crucial features. If we could add our own features or extensions to Ext designer, that would be a very good tool for our special case.

I like to edit code like in DreamWeaver with split screen, where I can imediatelly see what I am implementing.

I like to think that in the near future, we will be able to create 90% of GUI design in Ext designer and 10 directly in the code, and 100% of the event functions in source editor like codepress. With new gadgets like Debug console, it would not be hard to implement also some runner, where on click we could launch a window with our code and trace the execution in the browser and int the console.

Here I'm attaching the screens of an application, where we are developing our ERP systems. Maybe some ideas.

tonedeaf
13 Oct 2009, 4:03 AM
A WYSWYG editor may show the capabilities of ExtJS, but I doubt whether it would be a commercial success with the "paid" model. At best, I see it as a power toy and it can come nowhere close to writing/extending the widgets by hand.

ExtJS library is just not consistent in the backend to seemlessly support a point-and-click based designer. I've had to deal with overriding base class functions, create constructors / initComponent methods (based on component) and define xtemplates to render parts of the interface to overcome bugs / create custom functionality. I just don't see how a WYSWYG editor can be used for this.

The code hooks functionality has to be pretty robust to handle such cases and even then the generated code can start looking ugly. And if I have to make some changes by hand, pretty soon I'll be refactoring the class myself.

So, I agree that WYSWYG editors should not be used in actual development projects, (imagine using Frontpage for your commercial website) and I dread the unlikely scenario of this tool getting used in the mainstream where I would be expected to maintain / debug code of other developers who haven't learnt ExtJS. Look at Visual Studio web developers, a lot of them cannot understand server-side code vs. client-side javascript. For them, its just "something" which the IDE "handles" and auto generates the code for them.

I view the designer just as a learning and a protyping tool, and $200 an year price tag is pretty steep for this.

celiane
13 Oct 2009, 4:27 AM
feedback

thank you for adding my suggestions:)

But he misses the ComboBox (HTML select) and MultiSelect (multiselect HTML)

are two component classical HTML! How does switch its two components! and please with data store!

Thank you very much for adding my suggestions! :>

Mike Robinson
13 Oct 2009, 6:19 AM
The "paid model," let alone "annual payments," is a deal-killer for me. Period. End of sentence.

Point barrel directly at ExtJS's corporate foot. Click. Bang.

ExtJS will continue to gain market acceptance (and to earn consulting revenue as the case may be...) to the extent that it is made drop-dead easy, a "no-brainer." The business advantage of making it "a no-brainer" far outweighs any supposed benefit of a tool that makes the package easier to use "but only for a price."

Think about it: when a company is evaluating Javascript packages, how does one describe the experience-level of the people who are driving the decision? It is minimal. Your best bet is to make it absolutely effortless for those people to get impressive results from ExtJS, as quickly as possible. Meeting their immediate business need, quickly and impressively and as painlessly as possible, produces rave-reviews in weekly status meetings. That drives sales.

Instead of struggling to figure out the goodies in the package (as people must do now), you hand it to them on a silver platter. You give them a huge leg-up, not only for using ExtJS in their apps, but in using it well. The developers speak warmly in the weekly meetings. The company licenses ExtJS. Over cocktails, blue-suited folks say, "well, we decided upon ExtJS, and the developers certainly got a lot of things done very quickly with it. They spent so much less time trying to 'figure out' this package, versus all of the other ones they looked at, that very soon they just stopped talking about all the other ones they looked at. And the results speak for themselves."

In time, the developers might come to regard the tool as "training wheels," but so what. They've studied the code that your tool produces. They're cranking out applications. ExtJS has become the company standard.

You know that "once you're 'in,' you'll stay 'in' forever." Once you have persuaded people to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars' worth of staff-salary developing apps using your library, they'll license your library for a dozen years hence. But when they are making that very-durable decision, you've got four or five very-nearly-equal competitors all sitting on mostly equal footing with yours. What's the deal-maker? "How easily and accurately can a developer who does not (yet) quite know what he or she is doing, produce truly-impressive results for the boss?" Forget about those dreams of per-seat licensing: if they don't adopt your package, they won't be buying any seats at all.

Animal
13 Oct 2009, 6:32 AM
It makes no difference though.

If people screw up by putting several Components into a layout: 'fit' Container, or overnest Grids in layout: 'auto' Panels, they'll still end up with bad results and wondering why their app doesn't read their "mind".

Modern software cannot be proof.

gurufaction
13 Oct 2009, 6:54 AM
I think the Ext JS team should spend their time improving the platform and not making development tools. Leave that to 3rd parties. Look at Flex by Adobe for an example of what not to do. They've developed a good IDE with Flash Builder but their component set is not even close to that of Ext JS. They are allocating their resources in the wrong places. Ext JS need to grow their component library. Improve and integrate all the wounderful 3rd party components your users have developed. Your components are what make your library great. Stick with it :)

smit_al
13 Oct 2009, 9:12 AM
How many of you would feel comfortable developing in the designer and how many of you would prefer to use your own tools when editing code?

I think I remember somewhere in this thread you guys mentioned having the designer as a plugin to Eclipse. It would be nice if the "code" view for the eclipse plugin used the default javascript editor in eclipse.

The preview looks good, keep up the good work. Despite what others have said, we plan to purchase the tool. I haven't seen/found a good third party designer.

cmschick
17 Oct 2009, 2:52 AM
Mike Robinson hits the nail on the head the first time. Look at the most successful IDE on the market, Microsoft's Visual Web Designer (this is the free version). For more power, they have versions which are not free.

Find a way to mimic that model and this thing will fly otherwise keep dreaming. The key is providing 'enough' functionality in the free version to get people hooked and dedicated to the Ext framework. Once you've found the sweet spot you're good.

Artur Bodera (Joust)
17 Oct 2009, 6:46 AM
There are number of ways to make the designer beginner-friendly.

First idea is to use templates - it's a common way to introduce newcomers to a complex building tool (i.e. MS Visio, MS Office apps, Adobe Flash, etc.).
Consider implementing a template loading/injecting methods, and some simple template selector (w/ screenshots). I'd see common use cases like "a window with two toolbars and a grid", "3 pane border layout", "complex form with expandable fieldsets" etc. It'd be a good idea to include all current examples from http://www.extjs.com/deploy/dev/examples/samples.html.


Another idea is to create a wizard. I know it's a lot of work, but it would start with a selection on what app layout we'd like to create. After that, for each basic layout a set of decisions would bring us to a generic but usable skeleton we could then customize to our needs.


As for class encapsulation, Jack, I'd recommend putting in a simple custom class code generator. With a given set of components (tree branch in inspector), we'd click a button, input a class name and it would output a customized (Ext.extend()ed) component with our params as defaults/overrides (then copy the code into clipboard or save into a file).
Next step would be to include a packaging logic - so our custom class can be packaged with a name, it will collapse in the inspector and appear in the toolbox as new reusable component.

Bulle Bas
17 Oct 2009, 8:15 AM
@joustin
There are so many wishes, ideally it should be open source a/o extensible, because extjs resources are limited. But i've read somewhere about a SAAS-model, I hope this won't happen, because these are conflicting terms.

Templates would be a nice bonus of course.

Artur Bodera (Joust)
17 Oct 2009, 9:35 AM
@joustin
There are so many wishes, ideally it should be open source a/o extensible, because extjs resources are limited. But i've read somewhere about a SAAS-model, I hope this won't happen, because these are conflicting terms.

Templates would be a nice bonus of course.

If you mean SAAS i.e. "software as a service" it can be put on Extjs.com website, but it will eat up our friends' bandwidth so the current idea of AIR app is great :-) Download once, use all the time. Same for docs.

I think it's best to keep it extensible, not necessarily open-source. Think modules and custom components in the toolbox, instead of hacking the tool itself.

For example - adding custom components could be as easy as copying *.js files into Designer's dir. The Designer would scan user directories, parse *.js files and read ext-compatible comment docs inside source, then display all custom components in the toolbox :-)

a free bonus: This would encourage all ux.* devs to stick to the common syntax

abe.elias
17 Oct 2009, 10:20 AM
For example - adding custom components could be as easy as copying *.js files into Designer's dir. The Designer would scan user directories, parse *.js files and read ext-compatible comment docs inside source, then display all custom components in the toolbox :-)

This is the direction we are going. The next release will allow you to import designer components.

abe.elias
17 Oct 2009, 12:39 PM
There are number of ways to make the designer beginner-friendly.

First idea is to use templates - it's a common way to introduce newcomers to a complex building tool (i.e. MS Visio, MS Office apps, Adobe Flash, etc.).
Consider implementing a template loading/injecting methods, and some simple template selector (w/ screenshots). I'd see common use cases like "a window with two toolbars and a grid", "3 pane border layout", "complex form with expandable fieldsets" etc. It'd be a good idea to include all current examples from http://www.extjs.com/deploy/dev/examples/samples.html.


We like the idea of templates. Can we get some screenshots (using XDS) for some template ideas?

Here's a screenshot of a basic Form Template. Helpful or hurtful?

SoreGums
18 Oct 2009, 4:08 PM
We like the idea of templates. Can we get some screenshots (using XDS) for some template ideas?

Here's a screenshot of a basic Form Template. Helpful or hurtful?
Helpful.

I attempted to "follow along at home" on the demo screencast (http://www.extjs.com/blog/2009/10/08/ext-js-designer-preview/) and failed...
So much easier to just open E and type text :/
If you had some templates that showed end results so I could put in all the details to achieve that same end result. I'd "get" how to use designer a whole lot quicker :)

It's damn time consuming writing out all the layout code to get to a point where I can show/hide a text field based on input from some other field... This is where I see the designer tool being helpful ;)

abe.elias
18 Oct 2009, 4:13 PM
Helpful.

I attempted to "follow along at home" on the demo screencast (http://www.extjs.com/blog/2009/10/08/ext-js-designer-preview/) and failed...

How far did you get? Mind sharing a screenshot? I'm sure what you ran into is common for someone else too.

SoreGums
18 Oct 2009, 4:19 PM
How far did you get? Mind sharing a screenshot? I'm sure what you ran into is common for someone else too.
I got upto duplicating the text field.
The text field went underneath instead of beside....

Edit: ha - I duplicated the wrong thing :P

Edit2: Go a bit slower - success.

abe.elias
18 Oct 2009, 4:43 PM
Nice Work!

Artur Bodera (Joust)
19 Oct 2009, 2:04 AM
We like the idea of templates. Can we get some screenshots (using XDS) for some template ideas?

Here's a screenshot of a basic Form Template. Helpful or hurtful?
Dump the bottom toolbar and buttons. Focus on form itself.

Focus on concepts - if you want to template the border layout, then focus on multiple nested panels with simple content (take a look at "layout browser").
If you want to make a template for forms, then leave windows, complex grids etc. Just focus on creating big forms. Of course it should be gradual, so we start with a simple form inside a panel, then formsets, then those put into tabs, then columns and fun with anchor layout ... etc.

But Abe... Don't reinvent the wheel! Import/implement layouts from ext demo page! I believe many devs already understand these examples, so they will be quick to understand how you can replicate the "looks" in Designer. If you bring at least half of these in, people'll have a plenty to choose and learn from. And most of the examples are already ordered in a gradually increasing difficulty manner, so you have that done for you.


Also, those small apps Jack wrote a while ago, like RSS viewer, AIR music player, Forum Browser etc. They are nice "combination" examples on how to create complex layouts in Ext - hence Designer.

ericliang
27 Oct 2009, 4:52 AM
Newbie here. Only 2 days playing with extjs (although registered a year ago in the forum to see screenshots).

Read the last 10 pages of this thread and I would like to say some things.

1) A company needs to make money. People who make money from ExtJS products should pay (a small fee) back. Whatever small means to each. If not, company will close or a percentage will be bought by Microsoft :-)
2) A company needs to understand that someone who writes HTML on notepad will only use FrontPage or Dreamweaver to do basic stuff quicker. Nothing advanced, nothing fancy. Just quicker. Would a "guru" developer pay for such a tool? Yes, definitely but one time and not much money (for example 50 X of whatever currency). A guru could have the tool to compliment his notepad, not the other way round.
3) Will this tool help newbies? Yes it will. Positively. But, will a newbie pay 200USD annually? Doubtful. Will a new newbie pay 50 USD to "jump on the wagon"? Could be. Even if the license was 18 months (annually sounds bad, 1 1/2 year sounds much better to the ear since it does not sound like a bill but as an upgrade)
4) Does company plan on getting lots of people who want to develop using ExtJS? Ideally yes, we should conquer the world, but will it happen? Will the corporate guy ask for a license? Will he be interested in the product? Will he have time or desire to play with ExtJS using a visual tool? Don't know. This guy would pay 200 USD cause it's not his money.
5) A developer who is not stupid would pay money to company also in order to help maintain a very good and solid product (who disagrees that the product is good? noone. Now support the people who make it so). Market the idea that the product is alive because company is supporting it. Make everyone pay out of good will. 50 USD is enough if you take it from everyone. 200 USD is not enough if you take it from 1000 people. Make the product cheaper and force everyone to get a license. You give the source code. Some (I will explain why he will be an ) will fork and eventually get his fork dead. 99% of open source forks die. Why? Because people think they are more capable technically and commercially than what they are, because they are not focused, determined and most certainly because they don't CARE about the product. Forks will die. But until they do, you will have your userbase going all ways.

I would pay 50 USD for something I could get away without paying. If I made a product and got money, I would pay 200 USD also for something that would give me more value and at the same time give the company money. I wouldn't pay subscription on predefined timeframe, though. Not unless I was a day developer making a lot of money from my code. People who are the latter have their own opinion and don't even get happy with the core code either.

Perhaps you should focus on the "wannabe" developers to get some money from them and focus on the bigger enterprise to a) create applications for them - the MySQL model and b) bigger enterprise developers that would buy more expensive licensing.

Do marketing. Talk in person with the people who really use your products. If they work for a big company be more personal and sell them licenses. Upgrade your brand and products continually. Don't give up. Be the Zend of Web2. Make it 100 USD or something and market it everywhere. Newbies are way more than those who know their stuff. Let THEM pay and have your team and the gurus here create addons that newbies will pay extra. Make it easy for newbies and they will pay for the OPPORTUNITY. A lot (combined). Sell support. Sell webinars. Sell local training. Sell more products. Be diverse. Use your guru community to add extra value, make them allies not enemies.

Thanks and sorry for being so lengthy. This is a very good product with source available and I would like it existed next year and go upwards.

bkraut
30 Oct 2009, 6:49 AM
I must say something. This tread is for a long time just discussing what licence model is the best for Ext Designer. Whatever the licence will be those who will need it will buy it.

Extjs does not have a designer jet, but has a wide community of users. From my point of view, it this will be the payable tool - or one of examples, I just need to know what good will it bring for our development. Having this in mind, just wanna know how good it is and extendable.

celiane
2 Nov 2009, 1:01 AM
Could you add

ComboBox (HTML select) and MultiSelect (multiselect HTML)

they are elements of classic HTML!
we are all accustomed to using them!
essential :((

Could you add them with "data store" Please =P~

thank you thank you :D

Artur Bodera (Joust)
2 Nov 2009, 1:51 AM
Could you add

ComboBox (HTML select) and MultiSelect (multiselect HTML)

they are elements of classic HTML!


Why not classic input and a H2 ?

Designer is dedicated to building layouts with Ext Components using available configuration options. It is not a WYSIWYG HTML editor. If you want a <select> with store, you should take a look at Ext.form.ComboBox. If you need multiselection then it is not part of Ext JS yet - you need to take a look at user extensions.

gregoire
18 Nov 2009, 2:18 PM
Any progress?

aaronstatic
18 Nov 2009, 6:37 PM
nice first post, gregoire

please read the rest of the thread

gregoire
18 Nov 2009, 10:18 PM
nice first post, gregoire

please read the rest of the thread

OMG it really is my first post. Found my answer in another thread. And I did read through this thread but found the agression less then appealing.

celiane
2 Dec 2009, 4:51 AM
proposals: add tips
see my example

MartinL
4 Dec 2009, 12:28 AM
I would really be interested in using the Ext 3.1 Designer. Do you already know something when it will be released?=P~

Jamie Avins
4 Dec 2009, 7:47 PM
Top priority is getting ExtJS 3.1 out the door at the moment.

misha
6 Dec 2009, 4:01 PM
Does that mean that Ext Designer is still coming with ExtJS 3.1?

celiane
10 Dec 2009, 8:27 AM
Hello,
In the search engine could change the condition
for find height and autoHeight
see my pictures

and also add operators and a button to turn off the reg search operators
example:
"height"
^height$
auto OR height

celiane
15 Dec 2009, 9:13 AM
add a tool for icons

bruglur
17 Dec 2009, 12:50 AM
When will be available the PRO version with the code generation?

beldaniel
17 Dec 2009, 7:03 AM
I would also like to hear from the team of a projected release date for the designer. Great work on 3.1, I am going over it this morning and can not wait to play with the treegrid.

jlambert
4 Jan 2010, 11:36 PM
Look, as long as you do bundled pricing, and the editor is discounted for those of us who would pick up a commercial license, I'd gladly pay for it. And support too. However, three things: 1) give me a shop price, or a bundle discount (say like 500 for 5 licenses, 1000 for 15, etc), so I'm incentived to implement it in a shop and it will be palatible to larger customers; 2) include good support and; 3) make frequent updates that don't break things so that the project stays on the forefront of technology.

I don't understand why folks would sit around complaining about spending 150-200 bucks for a tool that they should be billing their client a reasonable hourly wage to work with, if it saves them (and their client potentially) cold hard cash. If you're a hobby or open source programmer, I can understand it, but this framework isn't really licensed in that direction already.

I am considering your editor. In fact, I don't think I'd use extjs without it, because I'm not going to pay programmers to do the tedious work of hand-editing all of the layouts - it makes complex ui applications quite expensive. I'm interested also in what 280 does with that cappuccino thing they're writing, because I'd like to be able to stop spending money on writing the same ui over and over again. :)

You know, while I'm at it, let me ask that you include some bindings for comet server if you're up to it - the nginx extension looks like it'll be extremely useful for building real-time applications and this framework should showcase it.

Oh hey, and holidays and all, sure, but what's the release date for this thing?

All the best,

Jonathan Lambert
CEO | WorkHabit, Inc.

Animal
5 Jan 2010, 12:45 AM
because I'm not going to pay programmers to do the tedious work of hand-editing all of the layouts - it makes complex ui applications quite expensive.

Amazing.

How long does it take to clicky drag things into place, and then scroll the property grid to the right point, and click into individual property value cell and insert the value?

Compared to typing



layout: 'border'


?

What you have just posted is the perfect illustration of the enormous waste of time and resources that goes on in the software industry.

ANYTHING, oh ANYTHING but taking the time to learn. It's got to be pointy clicky.

tonedeaf
5 Jan 2010, 1:05 AM
I would personally see it useful as a prototyping tool, to design forms and get them right before writing the code manually in the editor.
I would prefer not to use the Ext Designer for code generation. I pretty much think that the generated code would be unmaintainable, but maybe the Ext team can do an exceptional job in this direction.

Anyways a high price tag would not make it usable as a prototyping tool either.

jlambert
5 Jan 2010, 1:13 AM
As I'm sitting here coding css and java (by hand) at the moment for a project, I kind of found your post amusing. In fact, I was just working with css border:0 right before I switched over to this window. I'm a programmer and avid hand-coder.

Right, now that credentials are dispatched...

If you're working on a large scale project, there are reasons why you would want ui engineers to have tools to do ui. If you use an example like border:0, it's an irrefutable but belittling argument that does nothing to advance your point, which I think is potentially solid. If you are trying to rapidly ramp an organization of hundreds to use a rich UI for building applications who have little background in this type of development, such as something that builds a json frontend on SOA, you'd have a use case for this product. Alternatively, if you're building a lot of UIs for UX, A/B or other testing purposes (again, a common use case), there's some potential benefit. In my case, I'm looking to lower the investment cost of building some commodity apps which I'd like to have rich UIs, and right now the ramp is expensive. For higher investment software, we'll continue to hand code it properly.

Alternatively and to your point, one of the audiences for this software is definitely someone who's not willing to learn to hand code it. :)

But, to counterpoint your point, I think it was "pointy clicky" in the form of browsers that made the Web take off, and it definitely had a role in Windows and the Mac becoming popular originally. Tim Bernards Lee might not have been wrong about his original vision of the Web. I do agree that it's a bit lowest common denominator, but that's often what causes products to "take off," if only because it lets starting out developers take the risk of learning and God help us, most economics judge applications on the slick interfaces.

Archaic and stereotypical attitudes that downput others opinions without substantive reasoning are much more damaging to software projects than a gui, imho. You probably know of at least a few user communities that have failed because of unfriendly receptions. That was my first post: you have definitely distinguished yourself as a particularly unfriendly reception.

All I'm trying to do is speak up as a potential customer and say, ship the product because at least some customers will use it, and despite the debate, I may be one of them - we'll see.

Hopefully, you can see that I do receive your point, and it is well taken. However, I also have a point, and while you may not agree to it, I wish you'd found a way to not try to cast my post off as the hidden problem revealed! behind most modern software projects.

I think, ideally, they should stick to the dual license model: it should be free and Open Source. But I would pay (to support the developers) a commercial license fee for it on some of the projects I've worked on that involved larger teams. But, it would definitely be a stronger platform if the project was open sourced.

Excuse the ex post facto edit - I wanted to get the Open Source in there.

BTW, I deeply appreciate that you volunteer so much here in the forums. I checked your profile after posting this, and thought I'd mention it. You really do help people out a lot, so perhaps this frustration is less aimed at me specifically and more at the "thoughtless persona" you deemed I represented. I can only hope.

Chilly reception.... brrrr.... is it cold in here?

Jonathan

celiane
5 Jan 2010, 1:51 AM
in the configuration options TabPanel
it lacks the option:
plain: true,
making transparent the background of the tab

Animal
5 Jan 2010, 2:12 AM
It's definitely not personal Jonathan.

I just see a long term trend to deskilling which leads to problems because someone needs to have skills.

And a trend to taking the first available shortcut even when it inevitably leads through a swamp which actually increases production costs and times.

gregoire
5 Jan 2010, 3:03 AM
My thoughts exactly. Quick prototyping followed by detailed work.

Animal
5 Jan 2010, 3:11 AM
Even slapping something together is quicker in code.

It's just



{
title: 'Something'
}


And you have a Panel.

joeri
5 Jan 2010, 4:16 AM
I just see a long term trend to deskilling which leads to problems because someone needs to have skills.

It's not a trend, it has always been like that. Unskilled coders have always existed. There are more of them these days just because there are more coders in general.

khebs@live.com
5 Jan 2010, 4:34 AM
Actually in my opinion, creating a layout in coding is slow, than creating a layout using Ext Designer, coding would end up cleaning Ext Designers output.

Imagine coding a UI in early versions of PowerBuilder.

Is there a new preview or screencast of the latest Ext Designer?

Animal
5 Jan 2010, 5:09 AM
Slow?



layout: 'border'


Time: 2 seconds.

gregoire
5 Jan 2010, 5:50 AM
Slow?



layout: 'border'
Time: 2 seconds.

A user interface has nothing to do with coding but with user experiences. Fast doesn't make it practical nor more usable. It's nice to "see" what you are doing.

Animal
5 Jan 2010, 6:02 AM
So run the page you are working on.

Bimbling about with draggy droppy things does not produce good code.

If you don't understand what layouts are are, how to configure them, then a draggy droppy toy will do you no good whatsoever. You'll produce a dogs dinner.

deanna
5 Jan 2010, 6:30 AM
So run the page you are working on.

Bimbling about with draggy droppy things does not produce good code.

If you don't understand what layouts are are, how to configure them, then a draggy droppy toy will do you no good whatsoever. You'll produce a dogs dinner.

I remember people saying the same things when word processors went from dot commands to WYSIWYG. The first WYSIWYG word processors were just the dot commands inserted for you. But then comes the next layer and the next layer and it becomes a tool you can't hardly match doing it by hand.

When developing a visual thing (whether word processing or UI layout) it is best to do it visually. It is natural to need to see it to know what you are doing. Ever tried to draw a postscript image with only x,y coordinates? It is easier with a visual tool. And the example you are giving are trivial. Where the real value of the visual designer comes in, is with complex layouts where you need to visually balance the screen so it feels right. You can't do that by hand without looking at the output. There is an art to UI design, although many people just use formulaic layouts because the art part is too hard. Having a visual designer lets the art come to the forefront again.

Animal
5 Jan 2010, 7:01 AM
Different matter.

There are no "bugs" in a document (typos, grammatical errors yes, but no bugs)

I predict a firestorm of "my panel doesn't work" "there are scrollbars" "there are no scrollbars" "it's not resizing"

Because the message has been taken as "woohoo we don't need to KNOW anything or READ and documentation. Slap it together guys".

I for one won't be busting my arse to help these people.

khebs@live.com
5 Jan 2010, 7:03 AM
border: 'layout' 2 seconds yes, if u typed it. LOL! +1 with gregoire, i dont need to point out what is right or wrong or what is, the point that we're trying to say is that its not practical to design on code and refresh all the time. Another issue that, what if u'r making a Adobe AIR or Titanium application using Ext, and specially in titanium if takes ~5 ~10 seconds before things shows up..

I can also make ~2 seconds doing "border: 'layout'"

copy->paste :D

SAnDAnGE
7 Jan 2010, 1:40 AM
Slow?



layout: 'border'


Time: 2 seconds.

What about the more complex layouts ?!

I've hand coded a few UIs in Java before the Visual GUI Editors appeared and it was a time consuming operation... what took 1 hour to develop, now takes 10 minutes.

Though I agree that first a developer needs to know what his source code does, I'm also sure that if the designer is properly built, it could increase even your developing speed at least 2 times.

dimentox
8 Jan 2010, 7:12 PM
Any updates on this i am painfully coding by hand a very very large website this would cut down my design time... hell id pay to beta a saving version.

Condor
8 Jan 2010, 11:33 PM
Any updates on this i am painfully coding by hand a very very large website this would cut down my design time... hell id pay to beta a saving version.

If you can't wait for the Ext 3.1 designer you could temporarily use the older Ext Gui Builder (http://tof2k.com/ext/formbuilder/).

dimentox
9 Jan 2010, 3:37 PM
But no grid support nor really ext3... I use a crap ton of grids vviewports, remote stores etc etc.

bak2006
13 Jan 2010, 4:34 AM
Hi all,
I've just downloaded EXT Designer, it's really great. But I want to ask if the Data Stores are working. If so, how to load data to a grid using XML Store?

Another Question:
Where is the compobox?

Thanks,

celiane
13 Jan 2010, 12:04 PM
Another Question:
Where is the compobox?


hello,

bak2006 I already requested the addition of:
ComboBox (HTML select) and MultiSelect (multiselect HTML)

Forum user "Artur Bodera (Joust)" responded earlier that ComboBox is not yet part of Ext JS and anyway Ext JS only serves to strengthen the HTML and not to replace ...

I am not of that opinion!
In our extranet Ext JS completely replaces the HTML!

the addition of select and mutiselect to Ext JS is an understatement!
Indispensable! To translate our HTML forms in Ext Js ...

celiane
13 Jan 2010, 12:28 PM
and for all refractory Ext Designer (see above)
Ext JS is an exceptional solution for application design: Extranet / CRM / RIA ... for business ... Ext Designer is a time saver! The time is expensive in business! We companies, we are willing to pay to save time ... $ 200 seems right for a product results, which fill our needs!
Ext Designer:
- Ext Designer will propel the project Ext Js!
- Ease of learning the same way as HTML WYSIWYG makes!
- Many more mature examples will emerge with Designer Ext (saves time = more polished product)!
- In our business developer did not have time to learn new languages (too much work) Ext Designer is a perfect solution to start designing without knowing!
Ext Designer is a revolution!

senacle
13 Jan 2010, 2:00 PM
I've found this : Ext Gui Builder (http://www.projectspace.nl/) v2.1.0

SAnDAnGE
14 Jan 2010, 12:27 AM
Yea... but that wasn't updated at all since the ExtJS Team started to say that they'll make the Ext Designer... and the promised Due date was 2 months ago.

jay@moduscreate.com
14 Jan 2010, 2:42 AM
Yea... but that wasn't updated at all since the ExtJS Team started to say that they'll make the Ext Designer... and the promised Due date was 2 months ago.

*life happens*! It's great to see that you all are very excited about this. A *lot* has happened since then and the designer has been pushed off due to various reasons. From what I know, the Ext team has not abandoned the project. So sit tight.

Neil McLachlan
14 Jan 2010, 3:12 AM
Animal's argument has a ring of truth to it, and historically when UI creation tools arrive to replace hand-coding, those who already have the hand-coding skills are *always* hostile to the new toolset.

The biggest, most prominent example of this is Visual Basic. The prejudice against it's form designer concept was so strong it framed the entire product for ten years.

But, there is some truth to Animal's point. Every time you put tools between a developer and the raw code, they lose expertise. Actually the 'problem' is better expressed another way: Every time you create a tool to replace certain skills in a developer, you can then hire more developers of a *lower standard* to build those forms.

So instead of being a problem, the appearance of the designer is now an asset.

Of course, in a perfect world, all developers would be enthusiastic hackers and geniuses who will be able to be productive with ExtJS in a couple of days and can hand-code even the most complex form with few errors.

But in the real world, hiring people like that is difficult. Even if you can find them, they are expensive.

If you have a project with even ten developers, it's obviously far more likely to succeed if you have tools that let you hire two uber developers and 8 grunts who will never know the API as well as they should. But when you need 180 forms built it's great to know that you can hire less experienced people to build them.

This lowering of the barrier to entry is what has driven practically every innovation in IDEs like Visual Studio in the last ten years. I myself walk into a room full of developers only to find that they can't do a damn thing without Dreamweaver, and I feel slightly ill. But in the commercial world my snobbish preference for knowing the toolset intimately is not economical and I will lose the fight every time.

The project I have been working on for the past year is an intranet application for document management for people in the healthcare business. My company can't afford to hire people who are sufficiently expert to do this stuff in ExtJS directly, but we can afford to hire people who can write XML.

So instead of coding the application directly in EXTJS, I'm built a window manager tool of a sort, whereby people describe the forms and lists they want in XML and the system then parses that at runtime and produces the UI they want.

It's not a GUI designer but it exists for the same reason. Just about anyone can understand the XML schema I've created for this, and they can easily take an example application and modify it to build their own application. They can then have an ExtJS-powered copy of that application running in minutes and the barrier to entry is very, very low.

Once I've completed the main engine itself, I will start work on some tools so they can step back from the raw XML as well, and a form designer will be a part of that. From a cost/risk/commercial perspective, these types of tools are fantastic effort multipliers.

ExtJS is in desperate need of a form designer and quite a few other 'builder' tools as well.

Tal
14 Jan 2010, 5:59 PM
I am looking for the Ext Designer. I barely understood that it will be release soon hopefully. But is there a way to access it in its current state? Should I be a premium user to take a look at it?
Thanks.

nlotz
15 Jan 2010, 2:35 AM
I am looking for the Ext Designer [...] is there a way to access it in its current state?

Introduction: Ext JS Designer (http://www.extjs.com/blog/2009/10/08/ext-js-designer-preview/)
Download [Adobe AIR Application] (http://extjs.com/products/extjs/download.php?dl=xds)

Tal
15 Jan 2010, 11:08 AM
Thank you :)

celiane
18 Jan 2010, 12:31 PM
hello,
Could you add:
- Information on the current version
- A button version check?
- A history of changes

extshrek
18 Jan 2010, 11:59 PM
Evan Edit

The designer is due to be released with Ext 3.1.


I thought I would share some videos of the current development version of the Ext 3 Designer. It's coming along nicely.

Video showing grid, window, forms:

http://www.screencast.com/t/c4T3Gbfhn

Older version showing grid:

http://www.screencast.com/t/XN8RXirJ

Yes, it was actually built using Ext. :D

Jack

Do you have an expected release date for Ext Designer.

Regards

bkraut
19 Jan 2010, 3:57 PM
Hi,

we are all eagerly waiting for the Ext Designer. Anyway - my question is will Ext Designer run just as an AIR application or will it be possible to run it in a web application? We would like to store files in the database.

The second question is. Will it be possible to handle several files inside Ext Designer? I'm missing a tab with file folders, where on click files are loaded to the design panel.

My last question - will it be possible to switch between design and code views? I really would like to code specifics by hand.

Thanks in advance - keep up the good work.

Bojan

gregoire
19 Jan 2010, 5:25 PM
Another question; will it be possible to import extjs projects not made with the designer?

celiane
22 Jan 2010, 7:56 AM
Jack

Do you have an expected release date for Ext Designer.

Regards

a date please ? please ? please ? ~o)

Gunmen
6 Feb 2010, 12:09 PM
a date please ? please ? please ? ~o)

I would like to know it too. \:D/

Vegeta007
8 Feb 2010, 1:10 AM
Hello,

Can i have a release date for this ? Ext JS 3.1 released in December. So we are in February now.

Thanks

celiane
9 Feb 2010, 2:21 AM
lousy support ... it encourages them to buy licenses to support ... 2 months delay, announcements ever held, no message of progress, as we all ask the same thing: when will it really out? extjs is there a future?

Vegeta007
9 Feb 2010, 4:59 AM
I agree with you, it's strange but we need just information about progression of this project.

joeri
9 Feb 2010, 7:11 AM
I'm quite curious myself. Can we have any sort of update on this? Expected release date? Common guys, you must have _some_ idea.

mask_hot
9 Feb 2010, 10:24 AM
I'm preparing a CRUD Grid Factory which will generates grids, forms and remote combos with a database as input, so I can't wait for the Ext.Designer and test my components in it :D

cginzel
10 Feb 2010, 4:05 PM
For you guys crying about not having this or wanting to know when it will be available, I understand, but I don't. The alternative would have been for Jack to not let anyone know about this work until it was done. So what would you rather?

joeri
11 Feb 2010, 12:32 AM
@cginzel: You present a false dichotomy. They've communicated expected release dates in advance for the designer, those dates were missed, so it's not unreasonable to ask what the new expected release date is. I've never worked on a software project where we didn't keep prospective customers updated on the expected release date.

aconran
11 Feb 2010, 11:27 AM
We are working hard on getting this out. We had some unexpected cross-platform issues to tackle with the native system integration. We're getting close and I will post a firm date here in the near future.

Thanks,

jay@moduscreate.com
11 Feb 2010, 12:38 PM
None the less, i think it's awesome that people still have interest in this :)

celiane
14 Feb 2010, 1:46 AM
waiting for a "firm date", could you give us a new video or pictures if the features have evolved? Or, better, a new demo version:) ... not to be frustrated to wait:) thank you! have finally responded to our messages

celiane
14 Feb 2010, 2:25 AM
I would like to code: a code generator PHP / Zend Framework, which should last you grafted this designer: the idea is to pre-program the structure of simple code example:
the designer ExtJs: I draw a toolbar button, which I name: add, edit, delete, ... And behind my Zend Framework code generator creates:

In a new project, create the code structure:
/ public / javascript / MyModule.js <- paste your code ExtJs Designer
/ application / modules / MyModule / <- creates a module
/ application / modules / MyModule / controllers / AjaxController.php <- creates a controller

When drawing in the Designer generates the content of AjaxController.php:
If ExtDesigner detects a dynamic store, the code of the action is automatically generated:
MyModule_AjaxController class extends Zend_Controller_Action (
public function addAction () {
/ / Temporary response code (method stub (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_stub))
}
public function editAction () {
}
...

Could you give this? adding an API so that we can develop tools behind ExtJs Deigner?


example: each time an action is done in ExtJs Designer, Designer sends action information to a server pre-configured in the ExtJs Designer, on receipt of such information, the PHP code generator generates the "stub" (controllers, and random response code (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_stub) for the designer grid for example).
This technique gives us total freedom for the encoding of our code generators:)

celiane
17 Feb 2010, 6:02 AM
Could you consider adding the possibility that we can add our own functionality:

example: a converter HTML to ExtJS:)
Detect simple HTML tag to the converted in ExtJS

<form method=post action="...">
<input type="text" name="...">
<textarea name="..." rows="..." cols="..."></textarea>
<input type="submit">
</form>

thank you

Bulle Bas
18 Feb 2010, 2:30 AM
Extjs could have expected this and it's even legal to do so. But I can understand that extjs doesn't like being overtaken by their own community.

As I expressed earlier in this thread I doubt whether the intended business model will be succesful. Let's keep an eye on it to learn from :)

celiane
19 Feb 2010, 2:26 AM
wwhhaaaouuu:)
Pre-order, 50% discount, starting price $ 149
awesome! FINALLY!
I bought a license:) for our pre-order the can you give us a pre-release?
thank you :D

diegolovison
19 Feb 2010, 2:31 AM
"Export object-oriented code to the IDE of your choice."

what is object-oriented code? Js or Java?

abe.elias
19 Feb 2010, 3:24 AM
Marketing team's way of saying it will export Ext JS Classes that you can then extend in your favorite IDE. ;)

diegolovison
19 Feb 2010, 3:30 AM
and about Java?
have plans?

abe.elias
19 Feb 2010, 3:45 AM
yes, we are working on that too. The Ext Designer 1.x version is only for the Ext JS 3.1+ product.

cherbert
19 Feb 2010, 5:03 AM
yes, we are working on that too. The Ext Designer 1.x version is only for the Ext JS 3.1+ product.

Would it not have been more logical to name it Ext Designer 3.1 ?!?

Its gonna get very confusing when new builds of Ext come out that aren't compatible with the designer. I can see the support replies now... "You need Designer 1.34 to work with Ext 3.1.2"

P.S I just pre-ordered it! Looks amazing.

bt_bruno
19 Feb 2010, 5:05 AM
Is that possible to you publish the output code generated by Ext Designer on the new video sample (the one creating the grid, and the login window) ?

Ext Designer looks really nice, but my concern is about the code, not only the visual part.

cheers!

YankeeImperialistDog
19 Feb 2010, 5:36 AM
I received the pre-sale notification this morning and was hoping there was a beta-trial version available. This really is quite impressive. My wife and I work together creating web apps and this is what we've been hoping for. I'm sure there was a beta program and i'm likewise sure i was not paying attention to notices.

is there a version available to members?

romanczar
19 Feb 2010, 6:03 AM
When will the final version be released? It is "nice" to pay now, but when do we get the product B)

devtig
20 Feb 2010, 10:39 AM
I guess the more people pre-order, the earlier.

YankeeImperialistDog
20 Feb 2010, 1:42 PM
This is a strange one. Why no answer from staff? I am asking about sending money before a product is released. I think it looks great if the demo is any indication. What gives?

devtig
21 Feb 2010, 12:28 AM
Cause its has been weekend since the question was asked?

abe.elias
22 Feb 2010, 8:44 PM
The last public demo is the Air version, we are working on getting the final version of product out the door and will not be releasing another demo until then.

romanczar
23 Feb 2010, 1:33 AM
Ok, but WHEN will we get the product that e pay for? Is there no release date at all?

abe.elias
23 Feb 2010, 1:52 AM
We plan to ship Ext Designer 1.x within 30 days. The team is hard at work on some very exciting final touches.

SAnDAnGE
23 Feb 2010, 2:03 AM
We plan to ship Ext Designer 1.x within 30 days. The team is hard at work on some very exciting final touches.

Thank you.

YankeeImperialistDog
23 Feb 2010, 5:32 AM
Ok thanks. I'll byte so to speak.

MadCat34
24 Feb 2010, 7:47 AM
Hi Team

Will a X-days trial exist ?

I'm interested in your Ext Designer, but I prefer test it (and see generated code) before buy it

Thanks

celiane
25 Feb 2010, 3:13 AM
Hello,

To satisfy everyone, he would have several options to generate code:

For example:

- Generate the code with OR without xtype:
new Ext.Panel({
OR
items : [{ xtype : 'panel',

- Generate code as variables (added to an item thereafter) OR as items that follow this (object notation):
var panel_1 = new Ext.Panel({ … after … new Ext.TabPanel(panel_1, panel_2
OR
items : [{ xtype : 'tabpanel', title : ‘panel_1’, … },{ xtype : 'tabpanel', title : ‘panel_2’, …

- Some options for the automatic naming of variables! example : panel_1 panel_2 OR extract the title title_name OR ...
- Adding a comment is also welcome (in the visual designer and code)!
- The addition of our own functions in: handler: function () (is also welcome!
- An overview of type browser to test our functions is also welcome!


ExtJs the designer should be able to generate simple code:
Example: at the click of a button opening a window (to graphically connect a button to a window and the code is generated automatically)
Example: all basic button, submit, opening closing, select all, delete element grid, ... should be followed by an auto generated code

j2ibeo
27 Feb 2010, 3:31 PM
Hi,
I have a screenshot here of something I did in sigmawidgets in under 4 minutes.
Can Ext Js, do this in less than the time?

Animal
27 Feb 2010, 11:20 PM
I could hand code that in Ext JS in 4 minutes.

j2ibeo
28 Feb 2010, 12:39 AM
I could hand code that in Ext JS in 4 minutes.

I think you missed the point here, I tried it again, and now I did it in under 2 minutes. The point is, it would be much fun and faster to make an application if Ext Js could have a visual editor. So, developers could concentrate more on the real program behind the frontend. I hope this time, I get through without spelling the words out loud.

Cheers!

Animal
28 Feb 2010, 4:24 AM
Whatever floats your boat.

ShatyUT
28 Feb 2010, 2:32 PM
Are the screencast demos removed? They seem to be gone from the links Jack provided on his first post. Maybe this is discussed somewhere in this 39 page thread but that's a lot to sift through.

I would like to get approval from my CTO to pre-order the designer but I'm not sure how successful I'll be if I have to describe what it does rather than show it via the screencast.

dawesi
28 Feb 2010, 7:40 PM
Are the screencast demos removed? They seem to be gone from the links Jack provided on his first post. Maybe this is discussed somewhere in this 39 page thread but that's a lot to sift through.

I would like to get approval from my CTO to pre-order the designer but I'm not sure how successful I'll be if I have to describe what it does rather than show it via the screencast.

There's one here: (Aarons blog post)
http://www.extjs.com/blog/2009/10/08/ext-js-designer-preview/

or as always on extjs.tv:
http://www.extjs.tv/index.php/2009/tgd-i-009-layouts-border-layout-4/

bone
3 Mar 2010, 3:43 AM
I could hand code that in Ext JS in 4 minutes.

this

tonedeaf
3 Mar 2010, 5:55 AM
My boss sent me an excited mail about a "better" way of creating ExtJS applications and included a link to ExtJS Designer. And "recommended" me to use this tool to create applications rather than spending the time to create them in code.

After several explanations later, and still not convinced on why we cannot "draw" our applications, I've given up. Expect another pre-order for the designer soon!

samskeyti
5 Mar 2010, 7:30 AM
I would like to work on a project based on ExtJS Web Desktop sample, extending it with new windows and functions.

Will the Ext Designer be an appropriate, useful and handy tool to extend Web Desktop?

abe.elias
5 Mar 2010, 2:15 PM
You can expect using the Designer to create new windows and laying out controls, but ultimately you'll need to wire it to the Ext Web Desktop so the Designer components you created are added it to the "start" menu, etc.

pjs
8 Mar 2010, 8:28 AM
Does the designer support working with custom ux components?

abe.elias
8 Mar 2010, 11:05 AM
The Designer was built with UX's in mind. There are a few minor issues that we are ironing out - look for this functionality in a future minor release of the Designer.

bulforce
8 Mar 2010, 11:15 PM
I have payed for it.

Please let me know what is the expected release date.

Also if there is a chance for me to get some beta version with enabled export will be good for now.

Thanks

YankeeImperialistDog
9 Mar 2010, 7:12 AM
!!

bulforce
16 Mar 2010, 12:25 AM
Is somebody reading this forums?

If Ext is not answering this kind of questions... I can imagine what should I expect later on as customer service.

Come on people... what is the release date of the tool?

SAnDAnGE
16 Mar 2010, 12:46 AM
http://www.extjs.com/forum/showthread.php?p=439797#post439797

Did u read this ?!

Even with that said I think it'll be somewhere around 31 march...

abe.elias
16 Mar 2010, 12:52 AM
We are working hard to get it out before the end of the month. March 21th is our internal date for the designer.

bulforce
16 Mar 2010, 1:13 PM
Thank you.

Any chance for a public beta with export enabled?

dawesi
16 Mar 2010, 6:56 PM
How's that March 21 date looking from the test team's point of view?

Will this be an alpha or beta or the real deal?

Will this be distributed from the ticketing system/services panel?

abe.elias
17 Mar 2010, 12:49 AM
Development is looking good.

It will be a 1.0. We will also be putting out updates aggressively.

You'll be able to download and use the designer the same way you download the SDK.

boban
17 Mar 2010, 2:07 AM
Awesome job guys , this is perfect web2 production line machine :)
Thanks

wickedsheep
17 Mar 2010, 3:25 AM
Awsome, awsome, awsome!

I've never ever been so excited about a product. Really, great job!

garyk
18 Mar 2010, 2:39 AM
I dont think the price is an issue. Its all about being productive. Ive always favoured IDEs that allow you to code and layout the UI. The only thing I would say is that the pre-order page has very sketchy details about what the designer can actually do. It says it supports datastores in xml/json but how do you connect them up? what about databases how do I map my schema to grid columns etc. These are things I would like to know *before* clicking the purchase button not after.

Gary

smit_al
18 Mar 2010, 5:51 AM
You can get an idea of how the datastores work by downloading the designer preview on the link below.

http://www.extjs.com/blog/2009/10/08/ext-js-designer-preview/

devtig
18 Mar 2010, 6:26 AM
You mean datastore menu on the left? That doesn't give my an idea about how the Designer will handle mapping datastores.

smit_al
18 Mar 2010, 7:39 AM
I seem to remember the video showed how it works. But, the videos have been pulled. You add the store to a grid and enter a url to load the data. When I do that with the preview it says no url entered!

garyk
22 Mar 2010, 4:05 AM
You mean datastore menu on the left? That doesn't give my an idea about how the Designer will handle mapping datastores.

Agreed, it shows nothing. I also went back and had a look at the designer and notice it doesn't fully support all the UI elements. ComboBoxes being one notable omission.

Like I say happy to pay the price but need to know in detail what I will and wont get so I can make an informed decision.

Gary

jay@moduscreate.com
22 Mar 2010, 4:09 AM
Agreed, it shows nothing. I also went back and had a look at the designer and notice it doesn't fully support all the UI elements. ComboBoxes being one notable omission.

Like I say happy to pay the price but need to know in detail what I will and wont get so I can make an informed decision.

Gary


The current version does have the combo and much much more.

SAnDAnGE
22 Mar 2010, 4:12 AM
Agreed, it shows nothing. I also went back and had a look at the designer and notice it doesn't fully support all the UI elements. ComboBoxes being one notable omission.

Like I say happy to pay the price but need to know in detail what I will and wont get so I can make an informed decision.

Gary

I'm not sure u'll have this chance for long :) they said the designer should be out on 21th march, so considering that 24th is the first ordinal with "th", your only choice is to gamble... or to not :)
Either way I think it's worth it, so far I used the preview to see if certain things are possible and what should be changed in order to make my code work as needed :)

garyk
22 Mar 2010, 5:04 AM
well the 21st has been and gone and the pre-order page is still live. I think I will go for it because I'm sure even if its not right from day one it soon will be!

abe.elias
22 Mar 2010, 2:50 PM
http://www.extjs.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19416&d=1269307543

Aaron and the entire Ext Team are working hard on the final build. Stay Tuned.

cmendez21
22 Mar 2010, 11:08 PM
Hi ABE, We are waiting for the 1 and RELEASE =P~ , but take your time (not to many weeks :D ) in order to make a good & quality release, keep up the good, great work..!

abe.elias
22 Mar 2010, 11:30 PM
Thanks for the support. Just a few more hours now (not days). :D

SAnDAnGE
23 Mar 2010, 12:16 AM
Thanks for the support. Just a few more hours now (not days). :D

Thank you (extjs team) for the great work and effort u made to get it out and thank you Abe Elias for keeping up with us and keeping us posted :)

jburnhams
23 Mar 2010, 12:32 AM
I've downloaded and installed the Designer. The first time I ran it it came up with a login box, I entered my details and it went away. Nothing happened so I killed it in task manager. Now whenever I run it, nothing appears - the Ext Designer.exe process just sits there in Windows Task Manager consuming 25,840K and no CPU. Any ideas?

UPDATE: I've uninstalled and reinstalled. On reinstall it had an error running vcredist_x86_qt.exe. Still nothing happens when I run it.

SAnDAnGE
23 Mar 2010, 12:34 AM
Windows version ?

Reinstall it..

for me works fine, though I have a license and I didn't find out where to put it :)

abe.elias
23 Mar 2010, 12:36 AM
Hang tight.. you might have installed a pre-release version. We are compiling XDS 1.0 now.

Out of curiosity what OS did that happen on?

abe.elias
23 Mar 2010, 12:43 AM
@SAnDAnGE The order department will get access to create keys in the morning. It's going to take them a bit of time to get them in the system. It's almost 2am here, so once you install the designer continue to use it under the trial.

jburnhams
23 Mar 2010, 12:46 AM
Hang tight.. you might have installed a pre-release version. We are compiling XDS 1.0 now.

Out of curiosity what OS did that happen on?
I downloaded from XXXX. The filename is ExtDesigner-1.0.0-windows-installer.exe. I'm on windows xp. Anyways, sorry for being impatient! I'll uninstall and try again later.

abe.elias
23 Mar 2010, 2:28 AM
http://www.extjs.com/products/designer/

cmendez21
23 Mar 2010, 3:42 AM
First of all congrats for the so fresh-release =D>

I haven't slept since yesterday ~o) and have seen the progress and updates (also site updates) on the release in the few hours about designer and opinions makes me wait a few days for my serial key, but and also Happy birthday Aaron..!

PS: I will drink some tequilas for your birth day :D (now gonna sleep)








http://graphicshunt.com/images/birthday_cake-12417.htm

wickedsheep
23 Mar 2010, 3:56 AM
Bravo everyone!

Developers should now go home and get some rest, we'll bash it until then. :)