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View Full Version : Pesadilla de copyright....(Nightmare of copyright....)



genius551v
22 Nov 2006, 3:32 PM
Con la rapidez y agilidad que esta creciendo la librería yui-ext y con la maravillosa forma de jack hacer las cosas. Que pasara el día que (que no lo veo muy lejano) un hambriento tiburón de negocios, de una gran compañía de desarrollo quiera arrebatarnos de las manos este tesoro invaluable de conocimiento libre y le proponga comprarle a jack su librería yui-ext ??? nos quedaremos solos y desamparados y ademas con la yui-ext con copyright ??? se que muchos estan haciendo cosas muy interesantes y que se han desprendido de la yui-ext (Animal y otros) pero aun siento que esto sin jack no seria lo mismo. Y de la forma qn que esto ha crecido y se ha convertido en un tesoro de conocimiento de invaluable valor economico me atrevo a decir que yui-ext siempre tiene que ser Libre!!!

(English)
With the rapidity and agility that this growing the bookstore yui-ext and with the wonderful form of jack to make the things. That it spent the day that (that I do not see it very distant) a hungry shark of businesses, of a great company of development wants to snatch of the hands this invaluable treasure to us of free knowledge and yui-ext proposes to him to buy to jack its bookstore to him? we will remain single and abandoned and in addition with yui-ext with copyright? that many estan making things very interesting and that they have been come off yui-ext (Animal and others) but I even feel that this without jack nonserious the same. And of the form qn that this has grown and has turned a treasure of knowledge of invaluable economic value I dare to say that yui-ext always must be Free!!!

(Translated text of automatic by http://www.google.com.co/language_tools?hl=es)

tryanDLS
22 Nov 2006, 3:40 PM
Leave to google to do a complete trashing of a translation. But I think the main question you're asking, is if somebody were to buy the rights to the code, what would happen to apps developed prior to that.

Jack, can chime in here, but my understanding of the BSD license is that once code is released as open source, it can never be taken back.

genius551v
22 Nov 2006, 3:49 PM
it is not a question, is just a thought :lol:

jack.slocum
22 Nov 2006, 3:50 PM
A good thing is that the license at the time of release would remain. So the existing code would still be BSD - although future releases would be up to the buyer. This is completely hypothetical, but if it did happen I think it would turn out ok.

Currently the "donation"-ware (like shareware, but instead donation based) model isn't working very well. Very few donations are coming in. That is mostly my fault, I haven't made a new post or released any new code in over 2 weeks (in yui-ext time that is ages!). I'm hoping that as the library and user base grows, so will the donations and I can support my family. We will see. In the meantime, I will probably have to do consulting on the side to try to earn an income.

sjivan
22 Nov 2006, 4:55 PM
Jack, I think its unfortunate that you're not making money commensurate to your talent. Many of us know how hard it is to get good developers, let alone outstanding ones like yourself. Having said that, I can't think of any other OS project where donations alone would be sufficient to compensate (well) for the effort being put in. I think most such endeavors hope to result in consulting gigs / book sales etc. I can think of several such successful projects like Spring, Hibernate , DWR etc where that's the goal of the project (beside the obvious of developer passion and furthering technology).

I really like YUI-ext and right now I'm looking to build a site for one of my hobbies with is non profit. Another reason for doing this is I like to dabble with different technologies. I've been experimenting with various toolkits and want to give YUI-ext a shot. So I don't have a corporation that can sponsor my work. As much as I'd like to donate an amount that you truly deserve, its not practical for me given the nature of my recreational project.

So this raises the the question about what kind of user base are you expecting decent donations from (not like $20 or so..) and for a company that is making money using your stuff, what in you opinion is a reasonable donation. Or would to rather leave that to the user..

If I were running a company, I'd be extremely happy with using YUI-ext because there's someone that I can actually pay (you) to get some enhancement done instead of it being more costly to develop in-house or having to wait for the OS project to triage and incorporate the enhancement at their own discretion.

Just some random thoughts..

Sanjiv

sjivan
22 Nov 2006, 5:01 PM
Leave to google to do a complete trashing of a translation.

I apologize for being off topic but I just found this one today related to google translation and its hilarious.

Translate the following from English to Spanish and the resulting translation back to English.

"monica's mama is very beautiful"

jack.slocum
22 Nov 2006, 5:26 PM
That's funny.

As for the donation, I think it depends on the companies use. To be honest, the true way I believe money can be generated is through development sponsorships. For example, company X needs feature Y and is willing to pay for it. Something like that.

genius551v
22 Nov 2006, 7:28 PM
Dont worry jack to the great men the life waits for great things to them, and you are very intelligent and that you makes great

:wink:

sjivan
22 Nov 2006, 9:26 PM
As for the donation, I think it depends on the companies use. To be honest, the true way I believe money can be generated is through development sponsorships. For example, company X needs feature Y and is willing to pay for it. Something like that.

Have you considered a sticky post where all the companies that donated are listed along with a one line description and url and along side them a start rating. A higher start rating indicates a higher total donation value.

More details like the features that were sponsored can also be provided. This would be some sort of free advertising for donaters and also their contribution will be appreciated by the community. The start rating would help donaters get a better feel of how their donation stands in relation to others.

Sanjiv

arnair
22 Nov 2006, 9:42 PM
Jack, have you considered possibly charging a small fee for using your library?

Joe Hewitt recently threw out the idea of possibly charging $15-$25 for Firebug 1.0. That is another well-loved piece of software developed by just one very busy guy, so I saw some parallels. Here's his blog entry about this:
http://www.joehewitt.com/blog/introducing_fir.php

I personally am all for it, and would gladly pay that amount for both Firebug and YUI/Ext. Heck, I spend more than $20 on coffee every week and that doesn't improve my work life as much as these two tools.

The reason I'm pushing this is that its just easier to convince your company to pay for a piece of software than to donate to it. YUI/Ext beats the pants off of several other software components that we license at my company, but we pay big $ for those for the sole reason that they are not free. I'm working on getting a sizable donation for YUI/Ext as well, but it's definitely an uphill battle...

If you wish, you could even make the library free for personal or non-commercial use. Please keep the open development model that you have now though - it's the main reason I love this library.

P.S.: I just noticed that you can now resize this text area. Can't wait to use that in my app, and I'm sure it takes like 1 line of code. See what I mean? :)

jack.slocum
23 Nov 2006, 3:08 AM
@genious
Muchas Gracias :)

@sjivan
I have thought about something similar. I do make it a point to point out when things are sponsored. My idea along those lines consist of a small app which lists like a roadmap with features and assigns a priority to each based on amount of donations received.

@arnair
I have considered coming out with a "yui-ext Pro" which includes 1 on 1 support and some prebuilt extensions that target specific application types (like "PropsGrid.js"). The main point would be to give commercial users a way to donate, since as you said many big companies can't or won't actually make a donation.

barrygently
25 Nov 2006, 9:09 AM
If I might just stick my 2c in, from someone who's just come across your site and yui-ext, please feel free to take or leave my comments.

You have a great product here Jack (described as superb by my boss, and I'm inclined to agree) that is commerical grade but my first impressions of the site was that it was actually a demo site for the Yahoo-UI. I'd perhaps consider doing the following:

1. Develop a site like FCKEditor, http://www.fckeditor.net. Focus that site (in addition to the one you already have) on the commercial side of things, i.e. who's using your stuff, demos, roadmap, support, compatibility etc. Develop some nifty demos, the RSS reader is VERY impressive, perhaps you could come up with an Email demo? Or even an integration of FCKEditor and some of your stuff as a "word processor" or an integrated "office" suite, i.e. ride off the back of their success.

2. Get your stuff listed on sourceforge, whilst that can be a pain it's a good way to get your stuff out to developers.

Anyway, just some thoughts. You've got some great stuff, don't let it go to waste!

Gary

jack.slocum
25 Nov 2006, 4:27 PM
Thanks for the link Barry. That site gave me lots of ideas!

barrygently
25 Nov 2006, 4:34 PM
No worries Jack! I rarely get "excited" about a project, but your stuff is excellent and I know that if/when we incorporate your stuff into our app my boss will make a contribution (can't say how much of course!).

Gary

jack.slocum
25 Nov 2006, 4:46 PM
Sounds good to me. If you have questions I am always around unless the Cavs are playing. ;)