1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeri View Post
    I had a hostility to the claim that JavaScript is unsuitable for large-scale development, not to TypeScript.
    It is wholly unsuitable for large scale development apart for a few exceptional teams that can scale scale their JavaScript development up to 90,000 lines without running into trouble. TypeScript is designed for the other 90% of wannabe client browser programmers who need to implement large scale complex logic within the browser runtime.

    And this highlights the reason as to why Sencha is showing little interest in the subject. Sencha is one of those rare clusters of highly proficient JavaScript experts who cannot perceive any problem with their primary dev language, hence they cannot see what benefit TypeScript delivers.

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    I think if your team is struggling with the things in JavaScript that make scaling more difficult, TypeScript will not save them. It will just remove one issue from a list of dozens of issues that prevent scaling. But, I won't argue the point that it would help rather than hinder junior developers.

    But, maybe this is the problem with web development, it's just too damn hard and there's too much to know. I was reading "The Tangled Web" (good book, I highly recommend it), and just the chapter about URL's and how they should be encoded by your app is enough craziness to send any desktop developer running screaming back to their favorite desktop platform. Allow me to illustrate:
    url.png

    And don't get me started on security on the web. It's basically impossible to build a secure web app, regardless of how much expertise and tooling you have. So, that's why I'm in favor of experiments like TypeScript to try to find a better way of doing web development, but I very much want this to roll back into the default platform (javascript) so all developers use it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeri View Post
    I think if your team is struggling with the things in JavaScript that make scaling more difficult, TypeScript will not save them. It will just remove one issue from a list of dozens of issues that prevent scaling. But, I won't argue the point that it would help rather than hinder junior developers.
    Everyone makes mistakes, and the better static analysis you have the sooner you catch those errors. TypeScript is like JsHint x100. This stuff simply cannot be done without static typing.

    Just look at the number of new bugs in each release of ExtJS. And these are some of the best JS devs in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by john76543 View Post
    Everyone makes mistakes, and the better static analysis you have the sooner you catch those errors. TypeScript is like JsHint x100. This stuff simply cannot be done without static typing.

    Just look at the number of new bugs in each release of ExtJS. And these are some of the best JS devs in the world.
    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the impact of TypeScript on code quality. I doubt that many bugs in ExtJS would be avoided if it was developed in TypeScript, based on my experience fixing bugs in the framework (they're almost always layout-related bugs, which use the right types but the wrong logic).

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    I think it must be a reason why some of the smartest people building some of the greatest products at some of the greatest tech companies on the planet all have something build on top of JavaScript

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeri View Post
    I think if your team is struggling with the things in JavaScript that make scaling more difficult, TypeScript will not save them.
    My team is not struggling with things inside JavaScript, we are having to deal with the consequences of writing 100,000+ lines in a language designed for nothing more ambitious than 100 line DOM event handlers. When writing a 90,000 line system you should only use a language that has most of the following. Public, Private, Class, Extends, Interface, Where, Any, First, Single, Contract.Requires, Contract.Ensures, NameSpace, Number, Boolean, String, Date.

    Think of it this way, in 2013 we can look back at 50 years of programming in large scale projects. Computer languages have been evolving consistently over those 50 years as IT teams tackle larger and larger projects. There is a clear pattern of language improvement from machine-code, assembler, simple compiled high level languages like COBOL and Fortran, then we moved into the era of block structured languages like Modular and Pascal, then the early attempts at OO such as C++ and Smalltalk and now C# and Java represent the latest languages in this evolutionary path.

    JavaScript is an accidental mutant branch and would have died out before the turn of the Millennium had it not spread like a pandemic in its browser host. Think of TypeScript as targeted gene therapy designed to nullify the Frankenstein chromosomes of JavaScript.

    A famous blogger once branded JavaScript as "the assembler of the internet". he was spot on, assembly languages are dangerous and 99.9% of programmers should steer clear of them. I believe that JavaScript as an assembler language will live on for 10 years as the low level browser execution language. However in coming years most browser programmers will only inspect raw JavaScript with the same abstract curiosity that Java and C# programmers have today when inspecting the disassembled version of their code.

    Human intellectual capacity has not advanced in the last 50 years and so I remain very suspicious anyone who says, "90,000 lines of JavaScript, what problem?".

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    I think this thread got super hijacked into a personal preference battle. What's your favorite IDE?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellsimoens View Post
    I think this thread got super hijacked into a personal preference battle. What's your favorite IDE?
    IDEA absolutely destroys everything else out there, with the exception of VB.NET or C# (where Visual Studio obviously shines).

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    I use IDEA but admittedly turn off most things, just give me some syntax highlighting and some quick error checking.
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    Vim with coloring

    I can finish most things before auto complete comes up for the others.

    Btw I'm coming from a team that handles over 300k lines of Ext JS code we just don't load it all at the same time.

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