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    Ext JS already has a reputation of a product that is time-consuming to learn. It certainly has a learning curve.

    If Sencha were to rewrite Ext JS in TypeScript (even though it's a better language), wouldn't this make their code base even less accessible since fewer people are familiar with TypeScript compared to JavaScript?

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    No one is suggestion that they rewrite Ext JS in TypeScript. Though if they did, it would probably make their lives a lot easier. No one else would need to care, since TS is purely a development-time tool. Once it is compiled, the output is plain JavaScript.

    We were asking for TypeScript definition files, so that people using Ext JS / Touch but writing their code in TS could gain type checking and code insight. Since the answers we got back from Sencha were basically either "who needs TypeScript, just write correct JavaScript" (a laughable argument), or "we're looking into it", I finally just generated my own definition files. They've been added to the DefinitelyTyped repository (a huge set of definitions for virtually all the major libraries out there).

    I posted the link just to provide a nice overview for folks who haven't looked into TS yet. In my opinion, it's going to become (and is already becoming) a big deal in the web development world.

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    Lets hope SenchaCon makes some announcement about TS.

    Also apparently they're making Ext more touch friendly, good news for people writing universal desktop/tablet apps

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    > they're making Ext more touch friendly

    Ext more touch friendly - great news.

    Typescript, CoffeeScript, GorillaScript, GWT, Dart. They are all evidence of the shift that is occurring away from Javascript.

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    The only really interesting one is TypeScript. GWT has been around for a long time and is already practically dead (what a shock: no one wants to use Swing-like syntax to build JS apps). I've never heard of GorillaScript but the GitHub repo only has 190 stars.

    I use CoffeeScript already for everything I do. I love it, and it helps a lot, but IDEs and tools still can't really help you in CS any more than they can in JS, because the tools have no idea what the types are. All it can do is guess and/or throw huge lists of possible matches at you.

    Then there's Dart. Might have been interesting, except that it's a totally different language (not ECMAScript 4, 5, or 6). And since Google's goal is to get browsers to run Dart directly, it's a non-starter. There's no way Apple, Firefox, or Microsoft would incorporate a Dart interpreter and hand Google that kind of victory.

    And then we have TypeScript. ECMAScript 6 syntax, typed superset of JavaScript (so that all JavaScript is valid TypeScript, and you can rename a .js file to .ts and it will just work), development-time-only (no TS artifacts in the generated JS), and open-source. And the optional typing enables the sort of error checking and code insight that mirrors what you get for AS3 or Java/Groovy development. I think we have a winner here. ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by brian428 View Post
    GWT has been around for a long time and is already practically dead (what a shock: no one wants to use Swing-like syntax to build JS apps).
    On which planet are you living please ? GWT is dead ? GWT is probably the best web framework out there. And believe me I work with them all. Swing like syntax ? Ever heard of UI Binder ?

    Like GWT Dart also compiles down to JavaScript. So Google dont need to wait on the other browsers to support the Dart VM.

    Please learn your facts before stating stuff you have no idea about.

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    My point was not the detail of one or the other. Simply that they collectively stand as evidence of the growing intolerance for Javascript's weakness.

    GorrilaScript is brand new. Give it time.

    Dart compiles to JS _and_ runs in a dedicated VM. Google are tageting browsers that support ES5 for javascript. Of course they don't expect the VM to be adopted everywhere (Google aren't stupid - news flash!). Where the VM is adopted the performance gain is substantial. The debug experience is great using the VM. Much better than any Javascript debug tools I use (chrome dev console, and the chrome-dev plugins for eclipse which bring breakpoint debugging into the editor).

    I've written alot of Dart code recently. The bulk of my client side code, actually, is in Dart - at the stuff where I'm most concerned about quality and reliability. A thin layer of Ext code sits on top of it going through a simple custom proxy to get data. It works well - both running on top of the Dart VM and on top of the compiled javascript. I'm happy with it. It is possible to write very reliable, well structured, code using Dart. And is has a very good regression testing framework. My experience using Dart is that it is very similar to the experience one has writing Java, C#, or even C++, structured application code but with dynamic typing that is more like a scripting language. The resulting code is of higher quality than anything I've experienced in Javascript.

    GWT is not dead or dying (I've used it also in the past). GWT guis are normally implemented using UI Binder (a modern declarative approach to ui dev). GWT is a mature framework that is simply in the latter stages of its lifetime. Very similar to Ext in my opinion - which is creaking under the weight of dated develop patterns and legacy javascript weakness that doesn't adapt well to the needs of large applications, but is very useful nonetheless because of it breadth.

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    Settle down, sparky. I know exactly how GWT works; I've used it. The syntax is horrible. Go find an example GWT app (if you can) and then laugh at the ridiculous amount of Java code it requires.

    GWT code and Swing code are very similar. They're both verbose, over-engineered monsters, and there are far more concise and elegant ways to accomplish what they do. The only redeeming quality of GWT was that it was Java, and thus offered better type checking, tooling, and build integration (e.g. Maven). But that isn't enough to outweigh the sheer bulk of the code that building a GWT app requires.

    Google themselves isn't even building anything with GWT. Everything they build is Closure or Dart-based. They've disassociated themselves with the project and handed it over to an open source steering committee. Why? Because even Google doesn't use it any more. Those are the facts. So sorry to upset you (not really), but yes, GWT is dead (or at least dying quickly).

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    Moving GWT to an industry driven forum isn't exactly "disassociation" on google's part. Google still have developers working on GWT. There were still GWT presentations at their last IO conference. And they have internal projects implemented using GWT. This discussion comes up frequently on the Dart forums. It's not "abandoned". At the same time, we're told, many of the GWT developers have moved to the Dart development. They are moving forward, as they should.

    We could debated the merits of whether javascipt is, or should be, on its own tedious trajectory of abandonment in this industry. People are finding paths around it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jptrainor View Post
    My point was not the detail of on or the other. Simply that they collectively stand as evidence of the growing intolerance for the Javascript's weakness.
    I agree completely. JavaScript is actually a disaster in so many ways. It was never, ever intended to be used the way it is now. It simply wasn't designed to support large-scale developmet.

    Quote Originally Posted by jptrainor View Post
    GorrilaScript is brand new. Give it time.
    Fair enough!

    Quote Originally Posted by jptrainor View Post
    I've written alot of Dart code recently. The bulk of my client side code, actually, is in Dart - at the stuff where I'm most concerned about quality and reliability.
    I do pretty much the same thing right now, but with CoffeeScript. However, I'll probably be switching over to TS for most work as soon as IntelliJ IDEA gains full support for it. It's almost there.

    Quote Originally Posted by jptrainor View Post
    GWT is not dead or dying (I've used it also in the past). GWT guis are normally implemented using UI Binder (a modern declarative approach to ui dev). GWT is a mature framework that is simply in the latter stages of its lifetime.
    It was an interesting idea that has just been surpassed. Believe me, I truly wanted to love GWT, since I do a lot of Java development as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by jptrainor View Post
    Very similar to Ext in my opinion - which is creaking under the weight of dated develop patterns and legacy javascript weakness that doesn't adapt well to the needs of large applications, but is very useful nonetheless because of it breadth.
    I also couldn't agree more. Generating the TypeScript definitions for Ext JS and Touch reveals every bit of the inconsistency in Sencha's APIs. You'd be stunned at just how many properties or methods override things in superclasses with incompatible types, irrational method signatures (optional params in the middle of a param list?!), or many other bizarre choices. They'd probably never notice this until the API is reconciled with a real type system, but once you see the strangeness in all its glory, it's somewhat unsettling.

    I do hope Sencha comes back with a full rewrite in Ext JS 5 / Touch 3, because a lot of this is carrying over from the 1.x days and it's really starting to drag the whole API down. But I digress...

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