1. #161
    Touch Premium Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,340
    Vote Rating
    131
    LesJ is a name known to all LesJ is a name known to all LesJ is a name known to all LesJ is a name known to all LesJ is a name known to all LesJ is a name known to all

      3  

    Default


    Quote Originally Posted by brian428 View Post
    And a huge leap back in revenue, since none of the many (MANY) organizations and government agencies stuck on IE 7/8 would be buying upgrades. I find it highly unlikely that Sencha would leave all that money on the table.
    I doubt that any company (government or not) will upgrade to Ext JS 5 if they are not willing to upgrade their operating systems and browsers. Companies that don't care about upgrades will be satisfied with the features provided by Ext JS 4 and they won't upgrade.

  2. #162
    Sencha Premium Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    428
    Vote Rating
    160
    brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold

      1  

    Default


    Quote Originally Posted by jchau View Post
    $$$. You made a great point. However, I wonder how many organizations that are stuck on IE7/IE8 actually made the upgrade to 4.x given its poor performance on IE7 and huge investment in the upgrade path.
    I'm a lead developer on several large U.S. government projects. They all use 4.x and would upgrade to 5 if that's an option.

    Don't get me wrong, no one wants IE 7/8 to die more than I do. It's a constant pain. It's just something I/we/Sencha need to keep dealing with for a bit longer, unfortunately.

  3. #163
    Sencha Premium Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    428
    Vote Rating
    160
    brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold

      1  

    Default


    Quote Originally Posted by LesJ View Post
    I doubt that any company (government or not) will upgrade to Ext JS 5 if they are not willing to upgrade their operating systems and browsers. Companies that don't care about upgrades will be satisfied with the features provided by Ext JS 4 and they won't upgrade.
    That's actually completely false. It's far, far easier to deal with upgrades in a central location (like a web application) than it is to deal with upgrading tens of thousands of workstations.

  4. #164
    Ext JS Premium Member westy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Bath, UK
    Posts
    928
    Vote Rating
    48
    westy is a jewel in the rough westy is a jewel in the rough westy is a jewel in the rough westy is a jewel in the rough

      0  

    Default


    It's not the companies with the legacy browsers that have to upgrade their versions of Ext from 3/4 to 5, it's the companies writing the products that they use that would be doing that, or not as the case may be (if legacy browser support was dropped).
    Product Architect
    Altus Ltd.

  5. #165
    Touch Premium Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,340
    Vote Rating
    131
    LesJ is a name known to all LesJ is a name known to all LesJ is a name known to all LesJ is a name known to all LesJ is a name known to all LesJ is a name known to all

      0  

    Default


    Quote Originally Posted by brian428 View Post
    That's actually completely false. It's far, far easier to deal with upgrades in a central location (like a web application) than it is to deal with upgrading tens of thousands of workstations.
    We also need to keep in mind that there are some companies that upgrade their software regularly and want to use the cutting edge technology. For instance, I'm currently working for a company where many users have workstations with 6 monitors. This company is looking for scalable and high performance software. If they find something better, they will abandon Sencha.

  6. #166
    Sencha Premium Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    428
    Vote Rating
    160
    brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold

      2  

    Default


    There's no doubt that it's a fine line between supporting older systems and pushing the cutting edge. I really have no idea if or how Sencha will do it. It could even be that there are two different versions of 5, one optimized for the latest browsers and one that supports older ones. But that definitely wouldn't be easy to maintain. It could also be that they push on with 5, but merge what they can back into 4.x for some period of time. But I'm sure that would also be difficult.

    Personally, I'd be fine with some sort of config flag in 5 that enables legacy browser support, which would be off by default. The gov't agencies I work with would probably be fine with a performance hit if it means getting as much of the latest and greatest as possible on IE 7/8. Everyone we work with knows that their browser support is a problem, they just have no control over it. Those decisions are, unfortunately, made at levels much higher up the food chain. Our clients will cheer as loudly as everyone else when the top-level folks finally decide to take their medicine and upgrade machines across the organizations.

  7. #167
    Sencha User aw1zard2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    577
    Vote Rating
    32
    aw1zard2 has a spectacular aura about aw1zard2 has a spectacular aura about

      2  

    Default


    Quote Originally Posted by brian428 View Post
    It could even be that there are two different versions of 5, one optimized for the latest browsers and one that supports older ones. But that definitely wouldn't be easy to maintain. It could also be that they push on with 5, but merge what they can back into 4.x for some period of time. But I'm sure that would also be difficult.
    I made this suggestion back in 2011 Sencha Con and I even said if the legacy browser fixes be made into more preprocessing code it would be best. Think of a flag to turn on legacy browser mixins with Ext JS 4/5.

    I'm currently stuck in the IE7/8 browsers supported only government regulations. And we are making all of our new architecture from 3.4 to 4.2.2 by having legacy browser mixins with bug fixes for different issues but if a browser like firefox or chrome goes to our main page that flag is turned off and the extra code isn't sent to the client side via our jsp pages checking browsers then dynamically adding our legacy js mixins.

    I'd like it if Sencha would go this way and make the css for IE 6/7/8/9 only into an addon piece of sass files if you need it.

    Just my 2 cents again.

  8. #168
    Ext JS Premium Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Antwerp, Belgium
    Posts
    559
    Vote Rating
    29
    joeri has a spectacular aura about joeri has a spectacular aura about joeri has a spectacular aura about

      0  

    Default


    Quote Originally Posted by brian428 View Post
    That's actually completely false. It's far, far easier to deal with upgrades in a central location (like a web application) than it is to deal with upgrading tens of thousands of workstations.
    I've seen these upgrade tracks at big government and corporate environments before, and how the app is deployed is usually the least impactful part of it.

    Typically they have adopted IE as their standard browser. The reason for using IE instead of firefox and chrome has to do with having a single browser for testing and training, and with remote administration (which is still easiest with IE). They have certified a few dozen applications on their specific version of IE (e.g. IE8). Some of these are web apps, some of these are native, some of these are off-the-shelf and some are custom-developed.

    Now, an upgrade from IE8 to IE9 in such an environment involves:
    1. Testing all the software front to back on IE9. Logging all defects which are not acceptable.
    2. Contacting the vendors for updated versions. This can cause a ripple effect by needing to upgrade other things (e.g. server versions) which in turn can mean much more software than just web apps must be upgraded.
    3. Tasking / hiring developers to update the in-house software for IE9 compatibility
    4. Testing an upgraded OS / software combo on a small user group to find out issues that need fixing / training.
    5. Drawing up a plan for a coordinated OS and software upgrade, combined with training, in waves. Typically this also involves hardware upgrades, which means the budget must be drawn up well in advance and approved at the highest levels.
    6. And finally, actually starting the upgrade.

    Nowhere in there is how the app is deployed the critical factor. It all has to do with ensuring that tens of hundreds of thousands of employees can get their job done without interruption.

  9. #169
    Sencha Premium Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    428
    Vote Rating
    160
    brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold brian428 is a splendid one to behold

      0  

    Default


    Quote Originally Posted by joeri View Post
    I've seen these upgrade tracks at big government and corporate environments before, and how the app is deployed is usually the least impactful part of it...
    Sorry, I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or not. But you said the same thing I did, just with more detail, so I'm assuming that you're agreeing with me.

  10. #170
    Sencha Premium Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    Posts
    245
    Vote Rating
    6
    Grolubao is on a distinguished road

      0  

    Default


    In my opinion the reality is that the upgrading path should be driven by the customers the development company has. If they are not moving anywhere from IE 7/8 to 9 then why should the development company invest in a new upgrade (e.g. ExtJS5) only to know the performance is inferior? What is there to gain?I get that in terms of development process is way more advanced and powerful, but on the other hand this also needs to be reflected in the end-user gains.