1. #51
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    Default I am happy to pay $299 / year for support

    I am happy to pay $299 / year for support


    I understand the mindset of the open-source community, however, it it critical to my business plan that Sencha stays in business, and keeps improving the tool that I have adopted. I am an independent developer and therefore, any expenses come out of my pocket so I think very carefully before I spend any $$$. Even so, I have been developing custom software for many years and have seen too many companies go out of business by choosing a business model where you pay a lot up front, then minimal or no payment to them until there is a new version that is so compelling that you must buy it. Why do you think that M.S. office went to a 99 buck a year subscription plan? To keep the cashflow somewhat stable.

    Too many products that I bet my business on, started as a shining star (Borland Delphi) and then, as they could not keep adding newer developers (you do run out of them!), started to sputter.

    If this is just a hobby for you, then I agree, $299 / year to have access to the nightly builds is a lot of buckos. For those of us using this for business, this is somewhere between 2 and 5 billable hours per year.

    Bruce

    p.s. Of course, now that I say this, I DO wish that the Q.C. was better, that it did not take umm.errr. 5 months to release 4.2.2 with only 2-3 new features! I would like to get MORE bang for my buck.
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  2. #52
    Sencha - Senior Forum Manager mitchellsimoens's Avatar
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    Default


    Just dropping by to say that https://fiddle.sencha.com has been updated to 4.2.2. My experience with the upgrade was that I did a simple Cmd upgrade:

    Code:
    sencha app upgrade /path/to/ext-4.2.2.1144
    This was the same for other internal tools I have created.

    Working with Ext JS for years and being part of Sencha for almost 3 years, my experience with user issues is that a majority of issues are usually wrong implementation, only a portion (maybe 25%) are framework issues. How you do things in jQuery (or others) do not translate well to Ext JS and people blame Ext JS for this.

    For bugs, there will always be bugs. This isn't a cop out, it's a valid statement for all software. For any product when I come across a bug, I try to report it with all information I can. Exact version, browser, browser mode but most importantly I give a clear test case. This is an area where https://fiddle.sencha.com is strong at.
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  3. #53
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    Default


    @christophe.geiser
    It totally agree with you post here:
    http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthre...516#post695516

    @olegtaranenko
    I'm interested to bugfixing an open source fork if you are able to bring more people in.

    @blomasky
    IMHO Community support is important at least as Cashflow, Sencha should balance better these two factors.

    @mitchellsimoens
    I agree that many issues are wrong implementations, but this is not all the cases.
    Here there are many quality developers that scans the source code and find several bugs.
    These developers will never receive the bugfixed version (if they don't pay money), this is not fair.

    Actually fiddle.sencha.com is 4.2.1 and not 4.2.2 (at least this is for my browser):
    L2nYQFS.png
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  4. #54
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    Default


    Mitchell,

    Screen Shot 2013-10-08 at 15.41.16.png

    this is a patches list I need support only for my current project.
    Of course, I can this manage by 'override' classes, but my experience shows that explicit patching is more robust and safe then create Ext.define( .. { override: true}).
    I'm keeping all diffs in the source repository. But for next project I need to find out sources, repatch it again, because 99% that Sencha apply changes in time when is will be for me 'too late', if any. Having my own open-source fork will eliminate this annoying job.

    We always want Sencha not get down. I don't know why, but pretty sure fork will be helpful for Sencha itself, not only for developers need hotfixes. It has many pros for this and only one contra (Sencha, may be, loose profit). In long-term scope it will increase product quality and then help Sencha earn money. What do you personally think about this?
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  5. #55
    Sencha - Senior Forum Manager mitchellsimoens's Avatar
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    Default


    Quote Originally Posted by fdp View Post
    @mitchellsimoens
    I agree that many issues are wrong implementations, but this is not all the cases.
    Here there are many quality developers that scans the source code and find several bugs.
    These developers will never receive the bugfixed version (if they don't pay money), this is not fair.
    I actually said that in my experience it's been the majority not all. I also said that Ext JS has bugs therefore of course not all are impl issues.

    I cannot comment on what is a support subscription only release or what is made public. This decision is above an engineer.

    Quote Originally Posted by fdp View Post
    Actually fiddle.sencha.com is 4.2.1 and not 4.2.2 (at least this is for my browser):
    I said fiddle was updated, never said that it allows people to use it. You can see that there are no support subscription only releases in that combo, like 4.1.3. People could then scrape 4.2.2 from fiddle if we allowed it to be used from fiddle for all users.
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  6. #56
    Sencha - Senior Forum Manager mitchellsimoens's Avatar
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    Default


    Quote Originally Posted by olegtaranenko View Post
    What do you personally think about this?
    Of course I cannot comment on this even if I say, "I personally think....". Anyone can construe it for an official statement.
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  7. #57
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    @mitchell

    I understand that support subscriptions vs commercial license differences have been discussed at length in the past, and while I don't agree with Sencha's position, I don't see anything changing soon.

    Is it possible to offer an option to purchase a bugfix-only release access for a major version? No svn access, no x-credits. Just access to download the latest bugfix releases, for the version of library the customer has a commercial license for. I don't mean it as a limited period support subscription, but as a perpetual access (like a major release version).

    The problem with a support subscription is that it expires, and IMHO, its a really bad move for a organization to profit from bug fixes like that. Like you said, that there will always be bugs in the software, but I haven't come across a software vendor who puts bugfixes behind a walled garden. Something is really wrong here.
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  8. #58
    Sencha - Senior Forum Manager mitchellsimoens's Avatar
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    Default


    Quote Originally Posted by sumit.madan View Post
    Is it possible to offer an option to purchase a bugfix-only release access for a major version? No svn access, no x-credits. Just access to download the latest bugfix releases, for the version of library the customer has a commercial license for. I don't mean it as a limited period support subscription, but as a perpetual access (like a major release version).
    Not currently but you can reach out to sales@sencha.com to see if they will make an exception.
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  9. #59
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    Yeah this is really dissapointing. A while ago I moved to Extjs, because thought it was a great framework (I still think it is). Using it at home for open-source projects and started recommending it in my work and to my friends. But of course there comes the....oh no..... you have to pay extra for the bugfixes....for the problems that product developers created. Seriously?
    Most of the open-source or even cloused source projects try to be as stable and bug free as possible, and earn money for extra features or specific support, but not from bugfixing.
    Good at least that Extjs is javascript framework, where framework bugs that imply security holes can be(and should be) resolved server side. Think what would happen if Linus created Linux with bugs and then asked for money to fix some of the security holes. Then Linux won't be there where it is now.
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  10. #60
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    There is no doubt that ExtJS is a great framework.
    But it is slowing down, because it is losing quality developers, and this release politic is the main guilty.
    And when you slow down, someone could pass over you, it is only a matter of time.
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