1. #1
    Sencha Premium Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    695
    Vote Rating
    102
    blomasky is a glorious beacon of light blomasky is a glorious beacon of light blomasky is a glorious beacon of light blomasky is a glorious beacon of light blomasky is a glorious beacon of light

      9  

    Default Sencha in perspective of a Clint Eastwood Movie

    Sencha in perspective of a Clint Eastwood Movie


    OK, I admit it! I loved the Clint Eastwood “spaghetti westerns” (not telling you how old I am, but I saw them when they were originally released.) One of my favorites is “The Good, The Bad and the Ugly”. I am fairly new to the Sencha universe (going like gangbusters for 2-3 months) Let me give you my analysis of this using this movie as a model:

    EXT JS:
    · The Good: As everyone knows, bigger is better! (ok, maybe not bigger, but we can agree that richer is better. This library is the richest, most feature packed, (ok, and bigger) than any other Javascript library. Yes, you can get similar functionality by using Angular, JQuery, someone elses grid control, someone else MVC framework, etc. etc. Of course, when one of those libraries has changed, good luck when your application breaks and you have to track down the guilty party. Here all the finger pointing is easy, if it breaks, then Sencha broke it!

    · The Bad: It is obvious that Sencha’s core compentency is their technical prowess (It is obvious that they get a F- in sales, since trying to talk to someone prior to the purchase was like pulling teeth. I still have not heard back from anyone re: the training classes after many emails and phone calls. But I am getting off topic). The downside of having such a large and rich library, is that the use is not intuitive. Thank God for all of the 3rd party books, However, a detailed overview of the features / uses / positioning of the library would help.

    · The Ugly: No Ugly, actually I am very impressed with the product



    Grid Control:
    · The Good: Forget good! The grid control is GREAT! Of course, I am coming from Flex where the grid control was sort of an embarrassment (wait, strike sort of!) For those of us who live and die by a powerful / flexible grid control, this is the cat’s meow! (My focus is building data-centric business applications, 99.9% of what I am doing will either be a grid or a form.)



    Documentation:
    · The Good: umm…errrr.. Well there is a LOT of it! And if you know where to search, you might find an answer. (which many times, required me to scan over all of the methods of multiple classes to get an answer.)

    · The bad: It is NOT complete, it is NOT always accurate, There are way way way too few examples. When I look up a method (or property) It would be very helpful to see a code snippet or 2


    · The Ugly: When responding to comments re: the quality of the documentation, it seems that Sencha is imitating an Ostrich (head in sand, pretending nothing really matters). Comments are sent back to the users, “we are doing better” , “just wait and see”, poppycock! Tell us how many MORE people are doing the documentation! Give us dates and milestones when we might see some improvement


    Examples:
    · The Good: There is an example for most everything, The depth of examples is impressive. This has saved me many hours of development.

    · The Bad: Since the examples are there for teaching / guiding, it would be nice to have comments within the source code.

    · The Ugly: The geniuses @ Sencha seem to think there is only one “right” way to do anything, In many cases there are more than one way. Having some examples that


    Architect:
    · The Good: If you can embrace, if you can “grok” the architect workflow and methodology (its not Eclipse with a plugin!), it is VERY fast, efficient, keeps you from making some stupid errors, and is super for those who have not yet memorized all 194 methods for the DirectStore class, etc. (if you don’t know what GROK means, stop reading this post, go to your favorite book store (or amazon) and purchase and read Robert Heinlein’s: “Stranger in a strange land”)

    · The Bad: forget bad, go right to ugly!

    · The Ugly: While your application can be edited in an external editor, someone, MUST write a program that will read and parse a folder and generate the appropriate metadata to import the folder into Architect. This is #1, much more important (IMHO) than any of the features that are being added to version 3.



    The Company:
    · The Good: One stop shopping, will not use the word mature (see The Bad below), but will say this an established, reputable company with a complete solution to both desktop and mobile. I have not found a company that comes close.

    · The Bad I feel like Sencha is run by very smart 18 yr olds who have the attention span of umm.errr. an 18 year old. Products / Ideas show up, are worked on, then seem to go into a corner and gather dust (and spider webs). I look at Sencha Devs which is a joke. It could be very useful for those who want / need to find 3rd parties to help (offload) development, but the searching is abysmal, the comments are ALL the same for each company. Sencha Marketplace is not dead, but thinking it might be on life support. If you guys are making a profit, how about you assign some manpower (woman power?) to improving and marketing some of these very neglected features.


    · The Ugly: No ugly. If the company was ugly, I would not have given up sleep for the last 60 days, trying to get my arms around the Sencha ecosphere.)

  2. #2
    Sencha - Support Team
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    3,854
    Vote Rating
    66
    Gary Schlosberg has a spectacular aura about Gary Schlosberg has a spectacular aura about Gary Schlosberg has a spectacular aura about

      0  

    Default


    Thank you for your post. We greatly value the opinions of our users and take them seriously even when presented in an entertaining way.

  3. #3
    Ext Premium Member halcwb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rotterdam
    Posts
    381
    Vote Rating
    52
    halcwb has a spectacular aura about halcwb has a spectacular aura about halcwb has a spectacular aura about

      0  

    Default


    I could not agree more, there is good, but also bad and ugly! Right on spot. With regard to ugly, most of the ugly comes from users and Sencha is not really helping those users (including me!).

    One of the ugliest aspects of using Ext is that everyone starts to believe javascript is like, Java, with classes and all that. But javascript is at its core more a functional language, and trying to mimic (and why oh why would you want that) a classical OO language introduces a lot of unnecessary ugliness and complexity, TMHO.

    I also agree with your comments on Architect, a great tool but not being able to work efficiently with a real javascript editor was a show stopper for me.

  4. #4
    Sencha - Senior Forum Manager mitchellsimoens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    37,547
    Vote Rating
    872
    mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute

      0  

    Default


    re: Documentation.

    I feel the way in which the documentation is presented is above others I have used for other products and languages. The content I would agree that it could be better. I can speak for myself, it's not my job to fix documentation bugs (or improve upon them) but I do try to go in and fix them when I can but admittedly it's sporadic and comes in clumps. We do have a couple writers that are working them (not just for Ext JS) but they are currently more working on the guides.

    I see a lot of people reporting bugs and such in the comments. Honestly, I wish we had a way to direct those to the forums where we have a bug reporting functionality as they can get lost in the comments. We are improving the workflow behind the comments but the bug reporting should be done in the forums so that we can push into Jira and have the workflow for that. When I push a bug into Jira and it's a documentation bug, I do try to just go ahead and fix it so that it goes into the next release.

    re: Examples.

    Comments within the code, that would actually be helpful and we do have some but that could be much better done. I'm going to open an improvement for this. You are right that there is more than one way to skin a cat (what we called it back in the day ) and showing these in the examples that we ship can lead to confusion also, I can see users going in circles trying to figure out which is the "best" way to do something. Also, this would bloat the release so maybe using Sencha Fiddle may be a great tool to have many examples. In fact we are looking into integrating Sencha Fiddle with our examples so that bug fixing or improvements can be done without users needing to wait for a new release.

    re: @halcwb about the class system.

    Ext JS has always had a class system and imitating a class system IMHO is the fight way to do a framework.
    Mitchell Simoens @SenchaMitch
    Sencha Inc, Senior Forum Manager
    ________________
    Check out my GitHub, lots of nice things for Ext JS 4 and Sencha Touch 2
    https://github.com/mitchellsimoens

    Think my support is good? Get more personalized support via a support subscription. https://www.sencha.com/store/

    Need more help with your app? Hire Sencha Services services@sencha.com

    Want to learn Sencha Touch 2? Check out Sencha Touch in Action that is in print!

    When posting code, please use BBCode's CODE tags.

  5. #5
    Sencha Premium Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    695
    Vote Rating
    102
    blomasky is a glorious beacon of light blomasky is a glorious beacon of light blomasky is a glorious beacon of light blomasky is a glorious beacon of light blomasky is a glorious beacon of light

      0  

    Default


    Mitch, don't get me wrong, I do LIKE the fact that you can use your tool to create a searchable, stateful documentation system. The UI, the user experience is MOST excellent. However, there are too many times, I either see a method / property and have NO clue how to use it. or, it takes hours / days to find the appropriate property. (I could give you many examples... but see this forum post that gave me the answer after about 4-5 hours of experimenting: http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?271733

    bruce

  6. #6
    Sencha - Senior Forum Manager mitchellsimoens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    37,547
    Vote Rating
    872
    mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute

      0  

    Default


    Bruce,

    I do definitely agree and the fixes I do I try to put in some examples. For example, one config I worked on not long ago was the defaultFocus config of Ext.window.Window: http://docs.sencha.com/extjs/4.2.1/#...g-defaultFocus This looks like this right now:

    Screen Shot 2013-09-13 at 11.20.18 AM.png

    and your point is validated that it has limited documentation. You may be able to figure it out but quite a few may not be able to. You are correct that this can be much better. Here is the fix I did (cannot fit it all due to scrolling even on my 27" monitor):

    Screen Shot 2013-09-13 at 11.22.17 AM.jpg

    You can see there is more text but more importantly there are 2 examples of how to use it. I'm not saying it's 100% perfect as I can see you now saying that the code would benefit from some inline comments and you'd be quite correct (something that I never thought of) but this is a big step forward for this one config.

    Working with Ext JS from it's inception and working at Sencha for 2.5 years I can say documentation has come a long way. It went from developers doing documentation when they wanted to today where we have full time doc writers and more devs that want to pitch in. It's not perfect and we will never believe it will be perfect but it's something that we are taking very seriously and we enjoy threads like this. We are being driven by community members speaking up and saying what we can do better. Documentation is something we have heard quite a bit and something we are putting work into.

    All I can say is keep reporting bugs (on the forums please) and keep the ideas flowing in.
    Mitchell Simoens @SenchaMitch
    Sencha Inc, Senior Forum Manager
    ________________
    Check out my GitHub, lots of nice things for Ext JS 4 and Sencha Touch 2
    https://github.com/mitchellsimoens

    Think my support is good? Get more personalized support via a support subscription. https://www.sencha.com/store/

    Need more help with your app? Hire Sencha Services services@sencha.com

    Want to learn Sencha Touch 2? Check out Sencha Touch in Action that is in print!

    When posting code, please use BBCode's CODE tags.