1. #1
    Ext JS Premium Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    381
    Vote Rating
    41
    rich02818 is an unknown quantity at this point

      1  

    Default Waiting for performance improvements....

    Waiting for performance improvements....


    What irony...Ed is the very one who spoke about the Extjs v4 performance *improvements* over v3 in the video presentation, when (once the class system changes were put in) v4 became much slower than v3. This performance problem was never fixed, and many of us had to stick with v3 because of it.

    So ... Ed left Sencha, joined C3 and migrated them away from a "Sencha framework" in order to achieve an"enormous performace improvment".

    From Ed Spencer's linked in:

    Lead UI Developer
    C3 Energy Network
    June 2012 – Present (2 years 5 months)Redwood City, California


    My chief contribution to C3 has been the architecting and development of the UI framework that now powers all of our products. Built on the solid foundation of jQuery, Bootstrap, LESS and a handful of other open source technologies, it has delivered an enormous performance improvement over the previous tech we used (which happened to be a Sencha framework), as well as a similar improvement in our development productivity.

  2. #2
    Sencha - Senior Forum Manager mitchellsimoens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    37,647
    Vote Rating
    899
    mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute

      2  

    Default


    Obviously I cannot speak about any reasoning behind Ed's departure from Sencha nor can I comment on his work at C3.

    One reply I would say to that quote is we don't know the state of C3's products were in when Ed was hired.

    Since Ed has left Sencha, Ext JS has come a long way and with Ext JS 5, since I employ the framework in my projects, I feel we have a much more stable framework than we had before Ed left.
    Mitchell Simoens @SenchaMitch
    Sencha Inc, Senior Forum Manager
    ________________
    Check out my GitHub, lots of nice things for Ext JS 4 and Sencha Touch 2
    https://github.com/mitchellsimoens

    Think my support is good? Get more personalized support via a support subscription. https://www.sencha.com/store/

    Need more help with your app? Hire Sencha Services services@sencha.com

    Want to learn Sencha Touch 2? Check out Sencha Touch in Action that is in print!

    When posting code, please use BBCode's CODE tags.

  3. #3
    Ext JS Premium Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    381
    Vote Rating
    41
    rich02818 is an unknown quantity at this point

      0  

    Default


    Well it's certainly the case that Ed would be expected to know how to get the most out of Extjs, and he states that moving from Sencha's product to those he specified has provided:

    "an enormous performance improvement .. as well as a similar improvement in our development productivity"

    Thus the idea that Extjs is the best thing since sliced bread is ... shall we say ... suspect. That is, unless one values above all else having only a single company to be dependent upon. However, when that company makes the types of:

    1. draconian license changes (ie lgpl to gpl to force purchase of commercial licenses)
    2. drastic cost increases
    3. unfulfilled promises of fixes to the performance degradation introduced first in v3, and then much "worser" in v4
    4. etc

    then one must think very carefully about such dependencies.



  4. #4
    Sencha - Senior Forum Manager mitchellsimoens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    37,647
    Vote Rating
    899
    mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute

      3  

    Default


    I personally never said v4 was faster than v3, v4 simply had a lot more going on. 4.0 was pretty bad, 4.1 was just a little better, 4.2 is quite a lot better. 5.0 builds on 4.2. I personally am writing 4 new apps right now using 5.0 and testing on a low powered IE8 machine the performance is quite good in my opinion. 5.0 has lot of features that 3.x did not so a little perf hit is acceptable for the new functionality.

    It was also interesting when people said layouts were slow. Going to v4 there was no major changes in the layout system. Since then the layout system has gone under the knife and is leaps and bounds better.
    Mitchell Simoens @SenchaMitch
    Sencha Inc, Senior Forum Manager
    ________________
    Check out my GitHub, lots of nice things for Ext JS 4 and Sencha Touch 2
    https://github.com/mitchellsimoens

    Think my support is good? Get more personalized support via a support subscription. https://www.sencha.com/store/

    Need more help with your app? Hire Sencha Services services@sencha.com

    Want to learn Sencha Touch 2? Check out Sencha Touch in Action that is in print!

    When posting code, please use BBCode's CODE tags.

  5. #5
    Ext JS Premium Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    381
    Vote Rating
    41
    rich02818 is an unknown quantity at this point

      0  

    Default


    Mitchell, while you may have never said so, the Sencha CEO repeated promised that v4 would be fixed to be faster than v3, and this *never* happened. History lesson:

    v3 was much slower than v2 and many of the fixes were contributed by user 'meroy' who spent hundreds of his hours debugging v3.

    v3 never did catch up to where v2 had been, and we were told v4 was the solution.

    Ed's v4 video stated that v4 was faster than v3. The Sencha CEO claimed that this performance measure occurred prior to installing the new class system into v4 and this broke the performance, but that the performance would be fixed.

    The performance was never fixed.

    (BTW if anybody questions any of the above assertions, they all be documented by posts in these very forums...)

  6. #6
    Sencha - Senior Forum Manager mitchellsimoens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    37,647
    Vote Rating
    899
    mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute

      4  

    Default


    I cannot talk about the motivations behind those claims because I was not working for Sencha or was not part of those discussions. I can, and will only speak about my experiences with the frameworks and I'm being honest.

    When I got my hands on 4.0.0 I cried at the upgrade path. 4.0.0 was released right when I was hired. But starting to migrate existing applications to it I started noticing the perf on IE. Few years later 4.2 was released and it has been a lot better. I'm never going to say it's as fast as 3.x, there is simply too much going on, functionality has gone way up.

    Some of the people leading the development of Ext JS back then learned JavaScript primarily by developing Ext JS. The code that is now in 5.0 is a lot better in terms of quality. I don't think 5.x will be as fast as 3.x as once again functionality has gone up.

    My experience has been app developers also have to code smartly. For example if you are replacing items, executing suspendLayouts and resumeLayouts will help a bunch. So it's a partnership to getting an app to perform well.
    Mitchell Simoens @SenchaMitch
    Sencha Inc, Senior Forum Manager
    ________________
    Check out my GitHub, lots of nice things for Ext JS 4 and Sencha Touch 2
    https://github.com/mitchellsimoens

    Think my support is good? Get more personalized support via a support subscription. https://www.sencha.com/store/

    Need more help with your app? Hire Sencha Services services@sencha.com

    Want to learn Sencha Touch 2? Check out Sencha Touch in Action that is in print!

    When posting code, please use BBCode's CODE tags.

  7. #7
    Sencha User Tim Toady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    570
    Vote Rating
    181
    Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold

      2  

    Default


    Ed's a bright guy, but quoting his linked-in profile to rant about performance is silly. People use Ext so they don't have to build their own application framework - and many people who aren't Ed would do a terrible job at it.

    I have used v2-v5. Any performance issues I have had have always been solvable on all versions. Sometimes that means knowing where the pitfalls are and avoiding them, but its not as bad as you make it seem. I have always found it to work pretty smoothly even on old IE versions. It might not be quite as snappy as the latest Chrome, but it still works fairly well. Ext provides a lot of functionality, and a slight performance hit is worth it to me. MVC in particular has made the code much more maintainable and gives a standard way to architect an application. That's not to say I wouldn't like to see increased performance though.

  8. #8
    Ext JS Premium Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    381
    Vote Rating
    41
    rich02818 is an unknown quantity at this point

      -1  

    Default


    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Toady View Post
    Ed's a bright guy, but quoting his linked-in profile to rant about performance is silly. People use Ext so they don't have to build their own application framework - and many people who aren't Ed would do a terrible job at it.

    I have used v2-v5. Any performance issues I have had have always been solvable on all versions. Sometimes that means knowing where the pitfalls are and avoiding them, but its not as bad as you make it seem. I have always found it to work pretty smoothly even on old IE versions. It might not be quite as snappy as the latest Chrome, but it still works fairly well. Ext provides a lot of functionality, and a slight performance hit is worth it to me. MVC in particular has made the code much more maintainable and gives a standard way to architect an application. That's not to say I wouldn't like to see increased performance though.
    Before you comment on the performance issues that you claim I exaggerate, I'd suggest you read the *many* highly specific threads that documented these problems. You make vague statements, those threads are anything but vague.

  9. #9
    Sencha User Tim Toady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    570
    Vote Rating
    181
    Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold Tim Toady is a splendid one to behold

      3  

    Default


    Quote Originally Posted by rich02818 View Post
    Before you comment on the performance issues that you claim I exaggerate, I'd suggest you read the *many* highly specific threads that documented these problems. You make vague statements, those threads are anything but vague.
    I have. This discussion comes up now and then. Many developers have created 4.x and 5.x applications with good performance. That is not vague. That is a fact that I can personally attest to. Stop worrying about milliseconds and start worrying about user experience/maintainability. Here is my response to the last time you said it.

    http://www.sencha.com/forum/showthre...l=1#post993371

  10. #10
    Sencha - Senior Forum Manager mitchellsimoens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    37,647
    Vote Rating
    899
    mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute mitchellsimoens has a reputation beyond repute

      3  

    Default


    Measuring milliseconds isn't a great to measure the ux of an app, it is really the only way to give the experience a numeric value though. For example, if something too 20ms but now takes 60ms then yes it's 3x slower but it's not going to be noticeable by a user. I'm not discounting that the 60ms doesn't need to be attacked to get it down close to 20ms nor am I saying that 4.x was only 3x slower than 3.x. I will say that internally, we really have poured a lot of effort to achieving better performance and in my apps I've noticed this effort quite a bit.
    Mitchell Simoens @SenchaMitch
    Sencha Inc, Senior Forum Manager
    ________________
    Check out my GitHub, lots of nice things for Ext JS 4 and Sencha Touch 2
    https://github.com/mitchellsimoens

    Think my support is good? Get more personalized support via a support subscription. https://www.sencha.com/store/

    Need more help with your app? Hire Sencha Services services@sencha.com

    Want to learn Sencha Touch 2? Check out Sencha Touch in Action that is in print!

    When posting code, please use BBCode's CODE tags.