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Thread: Is Sencha ******** single developers?

  1. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefoxSafari View Post
    Sencha already confirmed that they are merging Ext and Touch.

    http://www.sencha.com/blog/senchacon...-the-speakers/

    The future of Sencha Touch as a standalone offering remains unclear, though it's implied all will be revealed at SenchaCon.
    That makes total sense to me. Perhaps, they'll redo the license for ExtJS 6

  2. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian428 View Post
    AngularJS is crushing Sencha across the industry. Look at what skills employers are demanding, community size, web content, books published, Github activity, user group activity, and any other metric you want to consider. Denying this is simply denying reality.
    Good for Angular, but I still believe that Angular JS should not be compared with Ext JS.

    You might use the same misguided "logic" and claim that VW is crushing BMW or Lexus because their cars are more popular.

    I worked with Ext JS for a number of years and I know that it competes with other component frameworks such as Dojo or SmartClient, but not with micro libraries such as Angular JS.

    The Angular JS add-ons that you listed in another comment are simply pitiful (in terms of features) when compared with Ext JS components. Of course, you can buy other components that work with Angular, but I reckon you'd be better off using components from a single vendor.

  3. #813
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    FWIW, I totally agree that ExtJS vs. Angular is a bit of a foolish comparison. It's like saying a car and a bicycle are comparable because they're forms of locomotion. Sure, true, but the comparison falls apart much beyond that.

    I can tell you personally that I lived the "framework that you then add best-of-breed components on top of" dream years ago, almost 10 years ago now. If dHTMLx had the best grid (and it did for a while) then we used that. Oh, but Dojo's menu is better? Fine, throw it in. That's the game you're playing with Angular. It's only now starting to get a good ecosystem of components built on top of it but it still, and I suspect always will, lack the one key thing you get with ExtJS: coherency. ExtJS is a full-stack for single-page apps and always has been and I for one believe it's unmatched. There's a few playing in the same league, a lot less than many people think though, and Angular isn't one of them, it's a different beast entirely.

    Now, that's not at all a knock on Angular... whether ExtJS or Angular is appropriate for a given situation is where it gets interesting. Sencha has never had a strong story to tell with regard to mobile, even with Touch, but Angular, in large part owing to it being simpler and by its nature more flexible, does a lot better there. Sencha kinda missed the boat here a bit and have been playing catch-up all along, but part of it too is that the whole mindset of the industry changing at the same time thanks to the rapid development of HTML5 and CSS3. I dare say if those things hadn't come on as strongly as they have then Sencha, Touch specifically, would be a lot more highly regarded (yes. I get that Touch is built on top of and is enabled by those, but the power they provide "naked" is what's changed greatly in a short period of time). As it is though, other players have been given an opportunity to shine. But, if you're talking non-mobile situations then ExtJS is still king of the hill and by a fair bit. You just don't get the full stack with anyone else (SmartClient is probably closest).

    At the end of the day though, Sencha I personally believe screwed the pooch. They had, and I think still have, the best technology... but rather than push it on every developer out there... rather than get everyone loving it and in essence selling it in enterprises for them, they basically said screw individual developers, screw anyone that's not going to pay us thousands of dollars a year. Well, the cost of that is that Angular, which is easy and free to get started with, now has huge developer mindshare momentum and ExtJS (and Touch) don't. If you ask me it was a short-sighted strategy and still is.

    Do they have time to recover? I don't know. I'd love it if they could change their ways and get people talking about them and loving them again... like I said, I still think they have the best technological story to tell... I'm not at all a fan of the way Angular does things... it feels simply archaic as compared to ExtJS... but the industry is speaking regardless of what I personally think and if Sencha doesn't hear it and do something to change their fortunes then I'm not even sure we're here talking about them a year or two from now and whether it's Angular or not at the top hardly matters.

  4. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by LesJ View Post
    Good for Angular, but I still believe that Angular JS should not be compared with Ext JS. You might use the same misguided "logic" and claim that VW is crushing BMW or Lexus because their cars are more popular.
    I guess in your world, Google isn't crushing Yahoo, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesJ View Post
    The Angular JS add-ons that you listed in another comment are simply pitiful (in terms of features) when compared with Ext JS components. Of course, you can buy other components that work with Angular, but I reckon you'd be better off using components from a single vendor.
    You really have no idea what you're talking about. I've built large apps with both Ext JS and AngularJS. You haven't. But, by all means, keep making stuff up if it makes you feel better.

  5. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by frank.zammetti View Post
    At the end of the day though, Sencha I personally believe screwed the pooch. They had, and I think still have, the best technology... but rather than push it on every developer out there... rather than get everyone loving it and in essesnce selling it in enterprises for them, they basically said screw individual developers, screw anyone that's not going to pay us thousands of dollars a year. Well, the cost of that is that Angular, which is easy and free to get started with, now has huge developer mindshare momentum and ExtJS (and Touch) don't. If you ask me it was a short-sighted strategy and still is.
    I agree with most of this, and those are the kinds of issues I was trying to dig into before the thread was derailed.

  6. #816
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    Just really writing this to add my +1.

    This decision makes absolutely no sense to me, licenses can be bought with a few clicks through their store so why remove the lower tier option? It's not like you have to get in touch with an account manager to get a quote (etc)... Perhaps they believe they're one day going to be in the same league as Oracle or VMWare where they're only dealing with multi-nationals all paying whatever price Sencha "invent" for them.

    It is the "Sencha" element of ExtJS that has always been a huge factor in resisting this technology for many projects. Much of what they create is very good (minus all the bugs and poor design choices we have to patch), but the bad decisions made by Sencha as a business are sometimes simply scary.

  7. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg707 View Post
    As of this point, you seem to be judging by the cover for AngularJS. There is a reason why they didn't provide the UI. The framework was built to make custom components easily by writing in plain HTML/CSS. Whereas in ExtJS, it considers HTML/CSS as evil being. Of course, you can use XTemplate which takes in HTML/CSS but about 99% of the time you're dealing with Javascript to generate the HTML/CSS for you. The good is that if ExtJS has a component that works for your requirement then awesome! If you have to generate a view component that doesn't exists in ExtJS then good luck! Actually, I have created many custom components in ExtJS and it wasn't that bad... But, I'd say it's about 2~3x more difficult than integrating with AngularJS. Writing ExtJS like grid in HTML/CSS is incredibly difficult.. this is why I'm hoping some other genius could write a AngularJS plugin for it.. I'm sure it'll happen eventually.
    I fully disagree with this. I find it very easy to create custom components. Ext JS is very extensible thanks to the class system. Extend a component, hook into methods, make plugins, mixins, specify a template, whatever. It's quite simple. A simple grid with just some column headers and rows would be very simple. Need sorting? It's easy to add a single click listener and delegate or check if that click was on a column header.

    Quote Originally Posted by sg707 View Post
    Another area where AngularJS trumps is the testing capability. Good luck trying to use Selenium. I do know Byntum product supports it but I believe they are the ONLY testing product for ExtJS. By all means, I like both ExtJS and AngularJS but saying ExtJS has no competitors is absolutely false.
    Another area I disagree. Ext JS doesn't provide anything out of the box like Angular does but that doesn't mean you can't do anything. I've seen people use component query to resolve components and to get it's element to work with Selenium. I think I saw a video on vimeo or youtube of a preview of someone doing it. Just because something isn't built in doesn't mean it's not easy to do.

  8. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian428 View Post
    And I'll respond with the even more obvious: that AngularJS came up because of the discussion Sencha's future problems regarding ECMAScript 6, which I listed along with licensing and a host of other challenges facing Sencha. Once the discussion devolved into a technical debate about Ext JS vs. AngularJS, I simply asked that it be continued in a dedicated thread. Which you'd have seen if you actually bothered to read the thread.
    I'm gonna throw my voice out there (I know you like it) and disagree with your ecmascript 6 "challenge" you are putting on Sencha. I don't see any benefit I would get out of using it over what Ext JS provides today.

  9. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg707 View Post
    The only thing that's responsive in ExtJS 5 is BorderLayout and added touch based events on the view component.
    That's not true. I think it could be better but you can show/hide grid columns easily with their responsive plugin. You can switch between vbox and hbox (use box layout and the vertical config). Expand/collapse panels. etc. If the config has a setter, you can use the responsive plugin to change it. That's what the plugin does, executes the set function on the config you specify within the responsive config object. Sure it's not using CSS like others but others don't have the layout system that Ext JS does. Don't fault Ext JS because they are a JavaScript framework and others are html/css with some JavaScript libraries (I feel someone gonna yell at me for that statement coming... just wait...). I enjoy Ext JS makes things mainly pure JavaScript.

  10. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamright View Post
    I've seen people use component query to resolve components and to get it's element to work with Selenium. I think I saw a video on vimeo or youtube of a preview of someone doing it. Just because something isn't built in doesn't mean it's not easy to do.
    I've built test suites for Ext JS apps using Selenium, Webdriver, and Geb. It's extremely difficult and time consuming, due to the deeply nested and varying DOM that Ext JS generates.

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