Page 27 of 124 FirstFirst ... 1725262728293777 ... LastLast
Results 261 to 270 of 1240

Thread: Is Sencha ******** single developers?

  1. #261
    Sencha User
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    7

    Default Couldn't agree more

    Quote Originally Posted by sebastienbo View Post
    I think this also impacts the way customers trust sencha as a platform for their needs.

    Usely it takes time to decide which platform you choose to use, things you evaluate: Costs,devlopment time, available knowledge and programmers on that platform and then you go for it.

    But in this case, starting companies see big costs, ok there is the advantage of development time, but who will you find to program your framework? programmers are now forced to change to a more open framework like angularjs from google or bootstrap from twitter. And now there is also a big trust issue in the community, who can be sure that the prices will remain the same after what they did now?
    Imagine you choose for Sencha, you have your whole company software running on it and suddenly they raise the costs by 200% while you are completely dependant from it (major risk factor)!! This is actually what happend for companies that used sencha with less then 5 developers, if you had 1 programmer the cost is now 500% and nothing guarantees that this price will not raise again in the future...
    Imagine that you conviced your boss to use sencha despite the high cost and now your boss is stuck with a framework for which he has to pay an incredible ammount each year..it's you that convinced him...he will not be happy with you now...so from now on, don't recommend sencha anymore

    I think companies should be very carefull now that they see how a closed framework like sencha could bite you in the ass (yes I call it closed because you cannot call the open after what just happend, GPL was a way to attract people thinking it was open)

    Sencha is going to bleed to death if they do not reverse quickly (other frameworks are now going to see a big increase of their community population and therfore start to grow very fast, like sencha did once)
    Amazing how Sencha has still not reversed this choice. The simple fact is that Sencha have shown an arrogance beyond belief. It just shows they couldn't care less about their followers, those who adopt their platform. What does the future hold not much for sencha, over time users will switch as they cannot trust sencha anymore. Even larger companies will reduce their reliance for fear of being stuffed as well when Sencha realises they can not support their updates without larger fees.

    We'll I'm off now to use a different platform, while this is a big step and too some seem strange. We'll lets put it this way, how can I trust sencha anymore so making the leap now will be easier than becoming further reliant on a platform which I have no idea what will be next

  2. #262
    Ext JS Premium Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Cypress, Kalifornia
    Posts
    310

    Default Too much noise

    Sorry that I don't feel for other folks pain. I paid $300-something to renew support and I can upgrade to EXTJS 5.x under those terms. Of course I'm a corporate developer but even so that's not too much. Also, over the years we've hardly had to use our support points as we could figure-out the problems ourself. If you're an independent and looking at a new license (which I agree is slanted) you're probably making 6 figures as a contractor. Pass the cost onto your customer. This thread shouldn't be this long.

  3. #263
    Sencha Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    591

    Default

    I think it's worth Sencha asking themselves, "are the majority of our customers corporate entities because they're the only ones interested in javascript frameworks of these types, OR, is it because we've traditionally treated individual developers like crap?" - perhaps they know the answer is the latter and this is the way of just cutting out individual developers for good.
    ExtJS Websql/Sqlite/IndexedDB/Dynamic proxies: https://github.com/shepsii/extjs-db-proxies

  4. #264
    Sencha Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    33

    Default

    ...Pass the cost onto your customer...
    From the Sencha Licensing FAQ:

    I'm under contract to build an application for my customer. At the end of the project, I will deliver the software to my customer. My customer will own the intellectual property (IP) for the software. Who needs to purchase a commercial license, my customer or do I need to?

    In this scenario, both you and your customer would need to have a valid product license. Under the terms of our commercial license, each and every person who develops a commercial product using Sencha Ext JS, Sencha GXT, and/or Sencha Touch must have a commercial license.
    Might be hard to pass $10k to your customer like that. Also you paid $300 this time. Next year if they have don't honor long term customers and have removed that license for renewals you're willing to go from $300 to almost $5k? They won't leave the older single plan grandfathered forever under this structure so it's only a matter of time.

    I'm corporate as well, but that doesn't mean I can go to my manager with that type of bump. First thing out of his mouth would be, "Are there any less expensive alternatives out there?".

  5. #265
    Sencha User
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    7

    Default Disagree we have a voice so we are using it

    Quote Originally Posted by dougbieber View Post
    Sorry that I don't feel for other folks pain. I paid $300-something to renew support and I can upgrade to EXTJS 5.x under those terms. Of course I'm a corporate developer but even so that's not too much. Also, over the years we've hardly had to use our support points as we could figure-out the problems ourself. If you're an independent and looking at a new license (which I agree is slanted) you're probably making 6 figures as a contractor. Pass the cost onto your customer. This thread shouldn't be this long.
    The thread is not too long in fact I wish it was a few hundred pages long. This is a desicion which affects many. To pass it on to your clients is not what this is about, we could but why should we. This whole post has a far deeper meaning. It is about the fact that for no reason a choice has been made to remove the single user license, OK an issue for some of us. The biggest issue here though and one which each and every person, never mind how big you are, is how Sencha keep doing this. I think in an earlier post there had been mention of an issue where the licensing had just changed causing an uproar. Now we get this, what is to come next. Is it when Sencha finds they have cut an artery and are bleeding to death! That they try to stem this, by charging the corporates more.
    This is the real problem here just changing the licensing model or pricing so drastically is something which should not be accepted.

    When this does happen for all those who stuck with it I hope you'll look back at this point and go may be we should of jumped ship.

    Anyway I'm off to other systems now.

  6. #266
    Sencha Premium Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    100

    Default why do I have to screw my client?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougbieber View Post
    If you're an independent and looking at a new license (which I agree is slanted) you're probably making 6 figures as a contractor. Pass the cost onto your customer. This thread shouldn't be this long.
    Hello - Earth calling highly paid US contractor - maybe not everyone in the world is on a six $ figure contract . What if someone is paying me a fixed price for something where I realise Ext would benefit them but now cannot justify that cost for a couple of months work (this is a real world situation) or as the company I am producing it for wants one of their developers to maintain some of the basic functionality, it was only to cost about $600 but now if I had not bought my licence one month ago, I would have to add $3500 for me and now they will have to pay $3500. Bearing in mind, this is only about $22K of work, to add $7000 rather than $1200 is a BIG difference.

    What will happen is that people will choose another cheaper product and, by not buying ANY ext licences, will be affecting the support revenue for the overall product. It is not a logical solution not to allow purchase of individual licences.

    Can you tell me of another product not offering single licences?

  7. #267
    Sencha User
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Lyon, France
    Posts
    234

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seade View Post
    I couldn't see any tweets about this subject.

    If you want them to change their policy you need to make some noise.

    Here is not good enough.

    Do it publicly. Do it politely. Do it regularly.

    A blog post may not make it through moderation. A facebook (whatever it is people do there) might be blocked. Twitter seems like the go.

    You can also add comments on any third party sites that have articles about Sencha.
    Since sencha's management does not seem to be inclined to dignify the community with an answer, feel free to upvote or comment on ycombinator. This might have a bigger traction than a sencha forum post.

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8494065.

    C.

    ---
    e-smile.org

  8. #268
    Sencha Premium Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    261

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dougbieber View Post
    Sorry that I don't feel for other folks pain. I paid $300-something to renew support and I can upgrade to EXTJS 5.x under those terms. Of course I'm a corporate developer but even so that's not too much. Also, over the years we've hardly had to use our support points as we could figure-out the problems ourself. If you're an independent and looking at a new license (which I agree is slanted) you're probably making 6 figures as a contractor. Pass the cost onto your customer. This thread shouldn't be this long.
    Excellent to hear from someone with a contrarian opinion. I see there are a few responses already, but I will add a few further points:
    • My renewal is due shortly - $495 for Complete. My reservations about this are threefold
      1. Why can I no longer purchase maintenance without support? This certainly used to be offered.
      2. Why are patch releases not available without maintenance and support (GPL users can share code and fixes, perpetual commercial license holders cannot)?
      3. The benefit in my continuing to support this platform has been reduced because as far as I am concerned it is now much less likely to be of use to me or my customers in the future.
    • It is all well and good for you and I who appear to be somewhat grandfathered in with single user licenses, but, as per the third item above the market will be smaller and hence less lucrative and the community will become smaller and less vibrant due to the loss of solo developers. Also, how much do you trust Sencha now; are you really grandfathered in at a single license or as someone else has already pointed out will there be some other change that takes away the advantage you perceive.
    • It has also been pointed out to you that your picture of independent developers as making six figures as contractors is very much open to debate. If you wanted to step out of the corporate umbrella and make use of your Ext JS skills you would individually need to purchase the "up to 5 developer" pack and convince potential clients of their need to do this also, this is not nearly as easy as you presume it to be.
    You do say that you agree that the new license "is slanted". I am actually in a similar position to you in that I have my license already. This is however a short sighted view, the loss of community that individual developers bring, the decrease in the use of the framework by smaller companies that provide the income to these people and the reduction in the marketability of Ext JS skills should be of concern to everyone, including the enterprise customers that Sencha appear to be going after.

    You knew of course that your comments would only make the thread longer. :-)

  9. #269
    Sencha User
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seade View Post
    You knew of course that your comments would only make the thread longer. :-)
    Right, and $encha probably just laughing out loud watching this thread without concern at all

  10. #270
    Sencha User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Ha ha... Anyone interested in resurrecting YUI? Now THAT would be the pinnacle of irony given that it was pronounced dead back in August, citing this:

    The consequence of this evolution in web technologies is that large JavaScript libraries, such as YUI, have been receiving less attention from the community. Many developers today look at large JavaScript libraries as walled gardens they dont want to be locked into.

    http://yahooeng.tumblr.com/post/9609...-regarding-yui

Page 27 of 124 FirstFirst ... 1725262728293777 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •