1. #1
    Ext Premium Member halcwb's Avatar
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    Default Is ExtJs open source or not?

    So, I have been working for years with ExtJs, expecting to be able to use this in a non-profit open source project. They actively claim to support the open source community, and in fact, their very existence has been made possible by an open source community.

    Now, then I stumbled on this text:

    Ext JS 5 is a new major version and therefore isn't related to the releases of Ext JS 4. Also the first two patch releases within a dot release are usually public releases while the others in that dot release are support subscriber only releases. We make exceptions at times but that's our normal process. So 5.0.0 and 5.0.1 are public releases, 5.0.2+ will be support subscriber only (the actual decision on this has not been made, this is just an example). When 5.1.0 comes out, it and 5.1.1 will be public and 5.1.2+ will be support subscriber only. This can of course change at any time without notice from Sencha.

    So 4.2.0 and 4.2.1 were public releases but 4.2.2 and the upcoming 4.2.3 releases are support subscriber only releases.
    So, it basically says, we release the code that doesn't work to the open source, then they can figure out all the bugs. We use that and sell the code? I hope not. Also, when trying to download open source versions of ExtJs, where are they anyway? Absolutely impossible to find on the website.

    If I can't use the working versions of ExtJs in an open source project, then I have a big problem!

    P.s. I do have a commercial license, and I do want to pay and support the development of ExtJs.

  2. #2
    Ext Premium Member halcwb's Avatar
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    Default

    P.s. I have looked for a day at qooxdoo. I got it up and running in a couple of hours, including a very nice unit test running suite. They have all the widgets I need, they support all concepts I need including a very clean class system and packaging, so, by by Sencha!

  3. #3
    Sencha - Sr Software Engineer mitchellsimoens's Avatar
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    Default

    Ext JS is open source as we provide the source and even release a GPL version. Ext JS is dual licensed and has a commercial licensed and when you purchase a support subscription then you get a perk of having the support only releases. This is nothing new, this is the way it has been for many years. The support only releases normally start at the x.x.2 release but isn't set in stone. For example, we didn't release a 5.0.2 release, we skipped to 5.1.0 and made it a public release. There will be changes coming with how we release also, I cannot comment on what just yet.
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellsimoens View Post
    There will be changes coming with how we release also, I cannot comment on what just yet.
    That certainly sounds interesting. Here's hoping most people will be positive or indifferent to the coming change and it will not be a policy switch spawning another 50+ page thread asking why the change was made. When do we find out - SenchaCon?

  5. #5
    Sencha - Sr Software Engineer mitchellsimoens's Avatar
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    Default

    I don't have an estimate, it will be SenchaCon or before but there will be wrinkles to iron out.
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  6. #6
    Ext Premium Member halcwb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellsimoens View Post
    Ext JS is open source as we provide the source and even release a GPL version. Ext JS is dual licensed and has a commercial licensed and when you purchase a support subscription then you get a perk of having the support only releases. This is nothing new, this is the way it has been for many years. The support only releases normally start at the x.x.2 release but isn't set in stone. For example, we didn't release a 5.0.2 release, we skipped to 5.1.0 and made it a public release. There will be changes coming with how we release also, I cannot comment on what just yet.
    You repeat what I observed (not by accident because I used your statement). Only, I interpret this as not really open source. As to 'not set in stone', yeah, we know by now. Compare this with (taken from qooxdoo.org):

    Will it stay Open Source?

    Yes. Always has, always will. It is a true Open Source project: standard licensing, contributor-friendly, public code repositories, public bug tracking and roadmap planning.

  7. #7
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    Default

    The way the Ext is is licensed totally sucks; but GPL is actually probably okay (with caveats).

    If you are happy to license your own code under the GPL you can use unsupported GPL releases. Be careful though, I suspect that they don't always release patch level fixes (they will publish x.0 and x.x releases, but not always x.x.x). They do not make it at all easy to find GPL releases and there is no Sencha supported code repository so it is extremely difficult to coordinate community provided patches (and Sencha policy appears to be to total disinterest in such code so as to not taint their commercial license). Note that there are also some features not included in the GPL versions, most significantly the charting code and some of the more advanced Ext Direct connectors.

    Alternatively you can pay for a license with support that lasts for a year so you do not have to open source your own code and you get access to x.x.x releases (5 developer minimum, don't get me started). After the year is up (or some number of years, but you decide not to renew) your access to patch code goes away (no x.x.x for you) even though you had access to x.x.x-1 when your support expired. IOW even when you pay for maintenance and support you are shafted at expiry time. $encha are pretty unique in this respect I think; most other organisations would continue to allow access to patch level (and even x.x) releases when maintenance and support expires. I don't think this is a recent change of policy, it has sucked for quite a while now.

    Of course if you are using the commercial license the absence of a community around the GPL code means that you get no benefit at all from Ext being "Open Source".

    So, is ExtJS open source or not? In name they are and the code is available though sometimes hard to find. Does the way open source is applied provide any of the benefits that one would typically hope to gain from its use? Not really, users might get free code but this is tainted by the absence of a community around the code. Sencha gets to claim to be open source, but they don't get any real benefits other than being able to make this claim (I would characterise them as resentfully open source). So yes, ExtJS is open source, but in a pretty horrible fashion.

    One last thing to be wary of is that as owners of the code Sencha can change the rules at any time. Despite any commitment they have made in the past they could cease releasing under GPL and the total absence of a community around the code would put GPL users in a very difficult position.

    Personally, even if I was happy to open source my code I would probably shy away from adopting anything from Sencha and seek out other alternatives most likely licensed under ASL or MIT style licenses.

  8. #8
    Ext JS Premium Member SebTardif's Avatar
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    Default

    Sencha Cmd is required for Ext JS and Sencha Touch. It's not open source, has bugs and keep changing often.

  9. #9
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    Default

    It's not open source, has bugs and keep changing often.
    Not open source is disappointing however the rest of the comment sounds like software

  10. #10
    Sencha - Sr Software Engineer mitchellsimoens's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SebTardif View Post
    Sencha Cmd is required for Ext JS and Sencha Touch.
    This is simply not true. For live proof, the code you run in Sencha Fiddle does not use Sencha Cmd at all but works. Sencha Cmd is highly recommended but not required.
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