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Thread: Is ExtJS dying

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamright View Post
    ExtJS keeps getting better so I don't see why I wouldn't use ExtJS for the projects that call for something like ExtJS. Every time I use ExtJS, I get better at ExtJS and JavaScript and CSS/SASS. I don't see what's wrong with relying on a framework. I don't just use ExtJS but for projects that need ExtJS, it's perfect and the ~$4k it costs is just a small amount of what I will be getting for the projects.
    Agree for the most part, although I'm still disappointed about the lack of a single-user license (even though, as a long time user, I'm still allowed to renew my single license). Ext JS is much better today than it was when I started with version 4.0 in 2011, and yes, I'm churning out much better code now than I was back then. I'm pretty much a one-trick pony on the client-side now, but I'm mostly OK with it because the quality of what I'm creating is quite good. I just hope Ext JS sticks around for a long time (as well as Sencha Architect, without which I would have jumped ship a long time ago).

  2. #202
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    I think ever since Sencha chose corporate clients over developers .... well it was inevitable. Its becoming "java" - something no small businesses and programmers willingly choose, but get crammed down everyone's throats by corporate politics.

    That said personally I feel extjs has lost its way in other ways as well. It was very high quality and had outstanding attention to detail when first came out. With version 4 everything was flushed down the toilet. Here's few points I think summarize what is wrong with framework in my opinion:

    - slow and sluggish (even trimmed version take forever to load up)
    - horrible tooling (sencha cmd is absurdly slow)
    - sass is great - yet extjs uses its own version of it (correct me if I am wrong)
    - lack of attention to details
    - race to make all things "Mobile" and in the process they forgot what made extjs great - making complex "desktop" like apps on the web.
    - huge learning curve for new developers
    - does not adopt modern tools like TypeScript
    - lack of real 3rd party support, widgets, tutorials, books etc.
    - tries to invent the entire wheel by itself

    What I personally think ExtJS could do to improve things?

    - embrace open source and open source developers.
    - embrace current web technologies - typescript, npm, etc.
    - target modern browsers - who needs < IE9 support should simply use older versions of the framework. Rest of us shouldn't be held hostage here.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by albeva View Post
    - slow and sluggish (even trimmed version take forever to load up)
    Ext JS startup has always been much more than things like jQuery, Prototype, etc and if you develop correctly, you're talking only like 2-3 seconds of time. In our user surveying, a simple splash screen goes a long way to making that time just fine. There are native apps on Windows that take just as long if not longer to load up so showing a progress bar with some text or % meter is just fine. And then after that initial load, browser caching comes to save the day on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by albeva View Post
    - horrible tooling (sencha cmd is absurdly slow)
    During development, you should use sencha app watch which will recompile your SASS and bootstrap data on file saves which then only takes a second or two. Normally time taken by switching to the browser to refresh. For a full build, well that depends on your app and how much is being built, a production build is less than a minute on our build server which of course I don't care about since it's on the build server and doesn't affect my development.

    Quote Originally Posted by albeva View Post
    - sass is great - yet extjs uses its own version of it (correct me if I am wrong)
    Fashion is great (their SASS compiler in javascript). Moving my SASS over to using Fashion was no work at all (I'm not using any custom compass plugins) and when the Fashion flag turned on, I can theme my app in real time. Meaning load my app, get that app watch going, save a .scss file and in my browser it just appears. No refresh needed. It's like other tool's hot loading that everyone loves.

    Quote Originally Posted by albeva View Post
    - lack of attention to details
    This comment has a "lack of attention to details" so my response will also. Cheers!

    Quote Originally Posted by albeva View Post
    - race to make all things "Mobile" and in the process they forgot what made extjs great - making complex "desktop" like apps on the web.
    I don't understand this. In Ext JS 5 they added tablet support (which just meant touch events and a new theme) and in Ext JS 6 they merged Sencha Touch in. They merged it, not replaced it. You can still use the classic toolkit that isn't "all things mobile" and don't even need to use the modern toolkit. So you can still make complex desktop like apps on the web, nothing has changed there.

    Quote Originally Posted by albeva View Post
    - huge learning curve for new developers
    There has always been a huge learning curve. When you come from something like jQuery or Angular, yes everything is very different. But if you come from Java or PHP or another class based language, things click a bit easier. So there is a learning curve but it's because things are done differently in Ext JS and by differently I mean better. In large code bases, classes are great!

    Quote Originally Posted by albeva View Post
    - does not adopt modern tools like TypeScript
    I know some people swear by it but that doesn't mean TypeScript should be used. Maybe I haven't given it enough time but it frustrated me from getting in my way too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by albeva View Post
    - lack of real 3rd party support, widgets, tutorials, books etc.
    This is to be expected with things like React and Angular getting all the buzz. Also, writing a book or producing videos is a huge time suck for not a lot of payoff. I think Sencha has been elevating their guides and docs quite a bit over last couple years.

    Quote Originally Posted by albeva View Post
    - tries to invent the entire wheel by itself
    When the wheel can't do what people need, you have to help it along. JavaScript is still an immature language, it doesn't support many features that people need. Even with ES6, it's still a half featured language (if that) and things Ext JS has been doing and are corner stones of it's class system are still not defined in the spec. ES7 is making some things better (like properties on classes that should have been in from the start) but Ext JS' class system is still much more powerful and flexible.

    Quote Originally Posted by albeva View Post
    - embrace open source and open source developers.
    Of course you want stuff for free! Who doesn't like free stuff? Facebook doesn't need to make money off of React. Google doesn't need to make money off of Angular. Their business model is something totally different whereas Sencha doesn't have something else to pay the bills. They would have to completely change in order to be a true open source company but many of the good devs would need to be laid off and I'm sure the VCs would never allow such a pivot.

    Quote Originally Posted by albeva View Post
    - embrace current web technologies - typescript, npm, etc.
    One of the great things about Ext JS is you download it and you can use all it's features without installing or compiling anything. Only setup you have to do is add a script and a link tag and you can start. Or if you have Cmd installed, it can download Ext JS for you when you generate an app so with one command you are up and running. Now starting with some other "competitors" it takes a bit more. You have to mix in this, make that work with something else, etc... I know people don't like closed gardens but closed gardens also come with some great pros... right Apple?

    Quote Originally Posted by albeva View Post
    - target modern browsers - who needs < IE9 support should simply use older versions of the framework. Rest of us shouldn't be held hostage here.
    So just because someone has to support IE8 they shouldn't get new features? You don't want to be held hostage but ok to tell someone who has been paying them for some time that they don't care about them? Robbing Paul to pay Peter is how you roll huh? With Ext JS 5, they asked their paying customers what was important to them. This is what a company should do and what everyone always flames them for not doing, asking their customers' opinion. And now you want them to disregard that feedback? Get real dude.

  4. #204
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    Thanks for your reply to my points - keep in mind what I wrote is (perhaps biased) perception of extjs and why for instance company I work for does not use it anymore. You can refute, explain and justify extjs and I won't even disagree with you - I just listed opinion that is out there (at least where I work).

  5. #205

    Default Really sad

    I also think Ext is loosing momentum in comparaison to other libraries. Yes Ext JS is great. Yes you can get this done with it. But the entire ecosystem is just pretty inactive right now.

    The community is simply not active as it was back in the days.

    I mean how come something like this comes out and zero comment ?

    https://www.sencha.com/forum/showthr...9-Desk-is-here

    Back in the versions 3,4 versions. People will give feedbacks, advices, etc ...
    Nowadays no one seems to care.

    Just look at the Angular JS side. Everytime someone creates something cool. They act like they just invented the internet.

    We need to get back to the old days where the community were more vibrant.
    It s in your hands @Sencha

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    Quote Originally Posted by leandrobbsa View Post
    I mean how come something like this comes out and zero comment ?

    https://www.sencha.com/forum/showthread.php?310576-Ahom%C3%A9-Desk-is-here
    To be fair, that was only posted on Friday, and we've had a weekend between then and now. It's an impressive piece of work but not one that I could see myself using.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by marc.fearby View Post
    To be fair, that was only posted on Friday, and we've had a weekend between then and now. It's an impressive piece of work but not one that I could see myself using.
    Thanks
    Can I ask why you would nt use it ?
    Cheers,

    Alain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ekambos View Post
    Can I ask why you would nt use it ?
    I use my iPhone for the majority of what Ahom Desk offers, though I have Dropbox on my PC at work and Mac at home (which I seldom use. I use a USB stick more often; old habits die hard).

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    Quote Originally Posted by marc.fearby View Post
    I use my iPhone for the majority of what Ahom Desk offers, though I have Dropbox on my PC at work and Mac at home (which I seldom use. I use a USB stick more often; old habits die hard).
    I see . Fair enough. Hope our mobile client will make you change your mind though

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by marc.fearby View Post
    To be fair, that was only posted on Friday, and we've had a weekend between then and now. It's an impressive piece of work but not one that I could see myself using.
    Well still there is something lost in this community. A couple of years ago people would give feedback, ideas, critics, etc ...

    Even Sencha's people would join and give advices.

    Nowadays no one seems to care.
    How many are sharing their work here after version 4 ? How much feedback do they get ?

    Even you just said "Cool, But I wont use it".

    Why would not you use it ? What can be done better ? etc ..
    Those are the things that got lost in this community and might not back anytime soon.

    Look at the Angular JS/Ionic section. A simple material datepicker will have people interacting like crazy.

    I miss the old days where I was coming here just to see the amazing things people were building.

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