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Thread: Why use sencha and extjs?

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by hakimio View Post



    A year ago we have started using DevExtreme Angular for some new projects. If you are looking for a all-in-one GUI framework, I would highly recommend it. High quality support, timely releases, big variety of GUI widgets with pretty good API, good documentation and examples.
    @hakimio Just looked over DevExtreme. Looks very complete. Is there anything missing? Are you still using sencha for any new projects or is DevExterme you new goto framework?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by troy.aumiller View Post
    @hakimio Just looked over DevExtreme. Looks very complete. Is there anything missing? Are you still using sencha for any new projects or is DevExterme you new goto framework?
    See hakimio's previous comment.

    https://www.sencha.com/forum/showthr...=1#post1319071

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakimio View Post
    • When Sencha was acquired by IDERA, they "let go" all the core developers and experienced support people and replaced them by some cheap Indians who have no idea how ExtJS works.
    • Even Don Griffin who was "Senior Director of Engineering" at Sencha doesn't think ExtJS has any future anymore.

    Can you provide some links proving this? I've read online about how they "let go" all of their core developers but how do you know they are cheap Indians?

    Where did Don Griffin state that?

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by LesJ View Post
    From this thread it seems that ExtJS is still liked by many people and it is a good framework relative to the others but due to neglect and mis-management it would seem there are better choices.

  5. #15
    Sencha Premium User mitchellsimoens's Avatar
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    The news devs and support employees are not just limited to India but their hourly rate is something that wouldn’t be acceptable to fast food joints here in America.
    Mitchell Simoens @LikelyMitch

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  6. #16
    Sencha Premium User wemerson.januario's Avatar
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    As Mitchell said, Ext JS is a complete and powerfull framework including component quality and feature set. When builiding a medium/bigapplication with another open source/free framework and "merge many libs to have one feature set" is a pain and can take hight cost).


    I can say that Sencha is working on this issues and will grow again. Many good news are coming to comunity.


    Some old guru employees are back to Sencha as freelancers and contributors. I think we can't point our finger to Indians, they are just employees and rated by hours, they can be a future gurus, we need to trust them and help each other(cominity).


    As an MVP member, I am pleased to take this discussion to Sencha.
    Wemerson Januario @JanuarioCoder
    Novanti Tecnologia, Sencha MVP/ Ext JS Consultant
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    Quote Originally Posted by troy.aumiller View Post
    @hakimio Just looked over DevExtreme. Looks very complete. Is there anything missing? Are you still using sencha for any new projects or is DevExterme you new goto framework?
    We are no longer using ExtJS for new projects. In terms of UI widget selection, DevExtreme is definitely quite complete. I just wish the data layer was a bit better. Hopefully, at some point we'll have some standard application state management library for Angular. Something similar to redux, but using OOP instead of functional programming.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmin91 View Post
    Can you provide some links proving this? Where did Don Griffin state that?
    He expressed that opinion in a private message on LinkedIn. Anyway, you can either send him a pm yourself or if he feels like it he could write few lines here since he is still checking the forums from time to time.

    I've read online about how they "let go" all of their core developers but how do you know they are cheap Indians?
    Let's look at the facts:
    • IDERA is known to replace veteran developers with the cheapest alternatives they can find when they acquire other companies.
    • The latest releases are quite low quality.
    • They are too ashamed to publish the identities of the new hires.
    • The new infamous Sencha staff people are named pakumar and rakumar.


    Feel free to draw your own conclusions.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by hakimio;
    [LIST
    [*]The new infamous Sencha staff people are named pakumar and rakumar.[/LIST]

    Feel free to draw your own conclusions.
    Would just like to say that just because programmers are from India does not mean anything other then maybe they are overseas and could cause management problems due to time/zone and other issues. Where a person is from and/or there ethnicity has no influence on their compliance as a programmer/designer.

    I have worked with programmers from all over and some are good and some are less good but I don't see any pattern having to do with their names.

    I will also say that putting together a team of talented and motivated people that could produced a product like Extjs and all other tools Sencha has to offer is not a simple task. That team was the most valuable asset Sencha had and IDERA did not see that and did not know how to capitalize on that assets..... that is our loss.

  9. #19
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    All technology changes, even as Mitch stated someplace else in the forums, AnuglarJS lost some when the ground re-write occurred and we saw Angular evolve.

    To answer is Ext JS still relevant and can it remain relevant? One thing to consider is will React, Angular and other frameworks remain relevant? Even jQuery is losing ground today.

    To me Ext JS does one thing better than the others. Universal. I'm not referencing universal in backward compatibility with browsers. We've changed our thoughts there in development in we outright don't support some older browsers. I'm not sorry for our decision or our clients, browsers that are 20 years old need to be updated. After all, is anyone still developing for Windows 3.1? How about Windows 1, Darwin, the original Mac OS? Even OS X 9? NO, because times changed and we can deliver much better user experiences today with updated operating systems. Web has become the same we saw in desktop development. You have to eventually stop supporting it or you're hurting what you can deliver to your clients.

    Is Sencha going to fix issues? Based on conversations and things I've seen; my vote is yes.

    Your question is very subjective and opinionated. Mitch was an engineer on the product and may base his opinions in contrast to where the new devs are heading. Mitch this is great to hear as other perspectives, especially those coming from someone who was once a core engineer can be very enlightening. Others are disgruntled with past experiences with Sencha and licensing changes, slow to release bug fixes and lack of involvement. The same things they complain about now.

    The best advice once given to me... Don't decide your development tools based on if it does what you want without understanding how the developers intended it to work. These two can be miles apart.

    I for one hope no framework ever releases universal for all platforms. It is a tough jump from a touch event to a click event and how about the "universal" desktop/mobile "mouseover"...

    Concluding I believe Ext JS is still relevant and will be moving forward. That is where I am at now. Yes I agree Mitch they have some decisions to face with licensing to help them grow their support and increase their user base. I further agree frameworks are advanced from the small startups and individual programmers playing with new technologies. Corporations tend not to give us time at work to play with different frameworks to help guide them moving forward. That is gained at home from our thrill of working with the latest and the greatest. Then when our employers think of updating code base and framework, it is us individual programmers who bring companies solutions such as Ext JS.

    No offense Mitch, but give them time. I've no clue decisions or reason for Idera making the changes they did; but I've enough vested in Ext JS to know I believe they will move forward.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by aallord View Post
    No offense Mitch, but give them time. I've no clue decisions or reason for Idera making the changes they did; but I've enough vested in Ext JS to know I believe they will move forward.
    I've spent some time thinking about your reply here (since saying my name multiple times). First, what I say is my experience before, during and what I see and hear after the acquisition. Take it how you want of course.

    Let's dream a bit. If I were Idera, here's what I would have done. I wouldn't have had one on ones with every employee but with any company there are leaders (and I'm not just talking about job titles) and I would have asked the good/bad/ugly questions about Sencha. I would have already heard from execs and the board but those responses are likely motivated to make a the sale of the company and getting to the "boots on the ground" perspective would be vastly different I think. Like the 5pk being a bad decision and what that did to the company and ecosystem around the company would have been much different than someone trying to sell the company. These one on ones could have been done before the sale of the company with signed NDAs even so under penalty no one could talk about these talks or even the possible sale of the company. This would help me formulate what I would do with the acquired company mixing in my own past experiences with acquiring other companies (since Sencha wasn't Idera's first).

    This isn't what happened. The day I met Idera's CEO is the day I found out about the massive layoffs and how much our replacements would be expected to get paid. I will agree that where a dev lives or how much that dev charges does not say the quality of that dev per se but in my experience it does raise giant red flags right away (the pay mainly) and seeing their support people on this forum hasn't helped sway my fear.

    I feel Sencha just needed some different management and a different kind of investment. If we were kept on the path we were going, modern toolkit would have had feature parity by now, we'd be quite far in the whole Ext JS 7 ES update among other things. For example, the Ext JS 6.6 that we were working on would have been done within 2-3 months and would have had more new features/components and lots more bug fixes than what we saw a couple months ago. So what you saw that was more than 6 months delayed was far less than what you would have seen a year ago. Nige has even shown some screenshots of these new components that were in the KitchenSink from over a year ago, we were like 90% done with these but now they go unreleased. Today, we would have been focused and gearing up for a major Ext JS 7 release that would mean you'd get to use ES6 classes and node packagers like webpack or rollup that we showcased at the last SenchaCon in 2016 (2 years from November ago) so you know we were already working on it.

    For things like ExtReact, ExtAngular and ExtVue would have been out by now and I know my love affair with web components, I feel like that would have been "done" if using vanilla web components or a tool like Stencil which may have gotten the ExtAngular and ExtVue done for free even.

    I mean looking at what has come out of Idera/Sencha in the last year has been much less than anticipated even with shuffling personnel around. New features in their 6.6 was some things they could move over from our 6.6 since they started over with the small 6.5.3 release. Some of the complex things that were not yet 100% (modern grid dual side locking, modern scrolling that supported trillions of pixels) did not make it over and may not. Looking at their nightlies, you can tell that project has like 2 people working on it as there isn't very much in way of changes.

    Once we got Ext JS 5 out the door, I really felt like we started hitting a stride getting the big performance loss from 4.0 mostly behind us. 4.2 was really the big release there but 5 was the first major version I felt had us on the right road to success. Merging Sencha Touch into Ext JS in 6 was a bit awkward at times but it set us up to making a big decision that modern gave us a better platform for the future so 6.5 we put tons of work into modern (including rewriting dataview, list, grid and tree components). Even though we had a huge backlog of bugs, we devoted two devs that came from the support team to address customer priority bugs. We could have easily taken 3 months to focus solely on bugs for a 6.6.1 release and you would have seen > 500 bugs fixed easily.

    So "give them time" to me is not an option as they have completely derailed the train (their prerogative of course). They have released a roadmap (which I have applauded) but have missed deadlines and what I see from what they are putting out thus far gives me huge reservations if they are now capable of executing it. I could have left Sencha and made double my salary doing Ext JS work solely but the ship was already sinking (even though I felt real good with what we were doing, I felt we could have corrected it) and Idera has done nothing to stop the sinking. I was vocal to my bosses about things internally and so I'm not surprised I've been vocal publicly now too. I've tried to tone down or phrase things differently to not be just outright negative and look like a disgruntled ex-employee. I've spent a large part of my life with Ext JS so seeing someone seemingly kill it is also a hard pill to swallow I'll admit. I feel this is being done more out of ignorance to running a web framework company that had been struggling.

    I've told someone still at Sencha that if I could work on Sencha Fiddle, I'd do it for free. I had lots of plans for that tool but would keep getting dragged into working on Sencha Test and Ext JS among other things. Like I had a proof of concept to allow running code from your browser to any connected remote devices. In fact, if I felt the hotel wifi would have held up at the last SenchaCon, I would have had everyone in the room connect to my fiddle and I would run code and they'd see the update on their devices all automagically. The use of that? Well I was having to create things that worked on multiple browsers and devices and locally I had 11 browsers pointing to it (on mobile devices too) and it was just crazy to see it all work. I also had plans for a "virtual" database so you could do CRUD operations that would persist giving you a much better dev environment (I actually used fiddle to create app starters for people that you can just download and run) and you could use node modules that would run from npm since we were getting into more node stuff with ExtReact et al.

    Sorry for the rambling...
    Mitchell Simoens @LikelyMitch

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    https://github.com/mitchellsimoens

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